[purveyor of knowledge]

I know a few things. Like for example, water is diamagnetic, and essential to life as we know it. But somethings I do not know.

For example, they say water is very incompressible, but how incompressible? And what about ice? Is ice even less compressible than water? I know you can break ice, but what happens when you compress it, like equally from all sides. How much pressure will it take? Can you cause water or ice to go critical?

Also, what is the force of water as it freezes and expands? We all know water can break apart mountains by getting in the cracks in the rocks and freezing, but just how strong is it? Can it break apart any material? These are some of the things I want to know about water.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by purveyor of knowledge I know a few things. Like for example, water is diamagnetic, and essential to life as we know it. But somethings I do not know. For example, they say water is very incompressible, but how incompressible? And what about ice? Is ice even less compressible than water? I know you can break ice, but what happens when you compress it, like equally from all sides. How much pressure will it take? Can you cause water or ice to go critical? Also, what is the force of water as it freezes and expands? We all know water can break apart mountains by getting in the cracks in the rocks and freezing, but just how strong is it? Can it break apart any material? These are some of the things I want to know about water.

Welcome to the toe,greetings from England to you,you are right to question the mysteries
of water,it has a consciousness,and a memory,see Emoto,the Japanese doctor,who works with water and does many experiments with it.


regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by purveyor of knowledge I know a few things. Like for example, water is diamagnetic, and essential to life as we know it. But somethings I do not know. For example, they say water is very incompressible, but how incompressible? And what about ice? Is ice even less compressible than water? I know you can break ice, but what happens when you compress it, like equally from all sides. How much pressure will it take? Can you cause water or ice to go critical? Also, what is the force of water as it freezes and expands? We all know water can break apart mountains by getting in the cracks in the rocks and freezing, but just how strong is it? Can it break apart any material? These are some of the things I want to know about water.

Hi PoV, and welcome to ToeQuest. I hope you find this forum interesting and challenging, welcome aboard.

If you look at this link: http://gibbs.ps.uci.edu/labpage/research/ It may explain some of what you are looking for. If not just type this into google, just as illustrated;

low temperature physics + water

That should give you all the answers you are looking for.

Regards,
Lloyd

[purveyor of knowledge]

Thank you all for the warm welcome! I really enjoy this forum so far and I think it is vital to our communication and progress on this matter, the TOE. May we all work together and find solutions to the problems we face, and may we all express our gratitude to Robert for setting up this forum and following his passion. Thank you Robert from the bottom and top of my heart!

Thank you MK for mentioning Dr. Masaru Emoto. I am fascinated by his work and it is currently one of the things I am studying. In fact, his work is just one of the many things I would like to discuss in this thread which will hopefully be a success.

Thank you for the links LG. One of the things that has fascinated me about water is how it shows the curious nature of thermodynamics. For example, liquid water will provide a force when you change it's energy enough. The amazing part is, it doesn't matter whether you decrease it's energy or increase it's energy! Isn't that kind of weird in a way? If you increase the temperature of water you produce steam and this provides an expansive force. If you decrease it's temperature it will also create an expansive force upon freezing. I know that the force of the steam comes directly from the energy you are adding to the water. But where does the energy come from that causes entire foundations to lift, pipes to crack, and mountains to rupture? I have not gotten a satisfactory answer for this from all the "experts" I have asked.

If there is an energy source which provides the force of freezing water, then exactly how strong is it? Is it a negative energy source being that it arises only when you take energy away? If so, how is this accounted for in the study of thermodynamics? Thank you all for taking the time to listen.

[RascalPuff]

Dear Purveyor of Knowledge:
Please consider this an draw your own conclusions...

Water & Ice at 4o Centigrade... - 05-06-2007, 01:20 AM


H2 0 @ 4o Centigrade:

A conspicuous exception to very specific rules...

The rule is that when heat is applied to matter - it expands to some degree.

When heat is subtracted from matter - it contracts to some degree.

Exception to this fundamental rule is, whether heat is added to or subtracted from matter @ 4o C. - that matter expands, however slightly (even when heat is subtracted from it) before it then conforms to the rule of expansion with added heat.

I don't purport to know what this means, but, I submit that it means something in particular, and that, if that something in particular could be understood, it will reveal answers to previously dissolute questions, and/or introduce advanced questions with corroborating answers. That is, I think this paradoxical fact flags itself for further consideration.

Moreover, H20 @ 4o C. alternately and ambivalently occurs as liquid water or solid ice.

Again, is there not a self revealed - apparenty unanswered - question here?

If there is some elementary - or complex - explanation for this, that is already understood, request that someone provide that explanation.
Thank you.
Regards, RascalPuff

[MJA]

Ice?

RP, you brought up a great question from days gone by. Years ago I owned and operated a commercial ice plant. I would fill stainless steel rectangular forms with water and suspend them in a glycol solution tank that was refrigerated below 32 degrees. The food grade antifreeze would stay liquid and the water in the block forms would turn to solid 12 lb crystal clear ice blocks. I questioned many times why I had to leave room in the forms for expansion or why water expands while freezing when a common law of physics would say the opposite, that it should contract? Of interest, the forms were completely open on the top side. Many times the force of expansion would split the steel forms at their seems. The expanding ice would not take the path of least resistance by overflowing the form, but rather blow apart the steel forms.

Another ice question arose while attending a physics class on the mathematical formula for alchemy. The learned professor stood at a black board and explained with numbers and graphs at what point a liquid becomes solid. In the end he said there was a finite point to when the change happens. With a stick he pointed to his and the finite point. Well, I could only disagree. Watching ice form in my ice plant for years I saw that there was never a point, or moment in time when the water turned to ice, but rather only a slow process of change with no point at all. Is there a point, or is the point only relative?

MJA