[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by RascalPuff Dear Michael: Feeling, in this case as well as many others, takes a warm wet spot fulla electro-chemical motion; makes time. Best regards, - RP

IS that SO! Rascal.


regards michael.

[MJA]

Originally Posted by RascalPuff _________________ Dear MJA: There's always been a universe fulla motions of things (Waves, fields, particles, etc.). Time = Motion = Time, ad infinitum. Whether there's any measurement - or other awareness of it - or not. (Time is as real as, the exemplary dynamics of Andromeda, the tower of Big Ben - or a Cesium atom - also.) Best regards, - RP

I agree RP,

Time = motion.

But, is it not equally true to say:

Time = measure?

and also:

measurement of motion = the measurement of time,

or

Time = the measure of motion?

So then is it true to say:

Time is the measure of motion,
and without a measurer, there is no measure, no time, and no motion, even if there is?

ouch, that hurt!

=
MJA

[Ur-bit]

Originally Posted by MJA Just another Question. Was there time before the first time keeper? Thanks, = MJA

Hi and thanks for the feeback,

Are you asking, was there time before time?

We can actually ask the same thing about everything else. Was there magnetism before magnetism? Was there matter, energy, space and motion (to name a few) before there were any of those things?

According to Big bang theory none of these things existed till after the “explosion” (big bang). Scientist believe initially there existed a singularity, a single point from were all things originate. In other words, all the physical phenomena that make up our universe come from this source.

The point I’m trying to make is this, I believe one of the main reasons we have such great difficulties understanding time is that we, in our minds, make it to be very different from those other things.

I believe science is telling us that before all these things were different, for example before magnetism manifested as such, it displayed other behavior, in other words, the forces that define magnetism or generate it were themselves being formed and coming together.

The same thing happened with matter. The basic constituents of matter, protons, electrons and neutrons, originally had other forms, (proto- matter, quarks/anti-quarks) as the expansion (big bang) continued, particles combined forming what today we call matter.

I believe the same thing happened with time. Originally time had another form, just like all other things. I believe that precisely 10*-43 seconds after the “explosion” it begins to manifest in the form we recognize today.

Science states before the big bang there was no time and I would add, as we know it. In other words, time before 10*-43 seconds is different and obeys other rules so we don’t recognize it as time. This is one reason relativity (based on 4-D space-time framework) can’t be used (breaks-down) within the singularity.

That’s why I say time is a secondary manifestation. The big bang itself is the primary manifestation. I also believe that along with time there are five other secondary manifestations. Each one of the six manifestations provides and attribute, a characteristic, a property or a quality, they are responsible for generating all phenomena in our universe.

Regards to all,

[chazzysaw]

Time travel plays well in Hollywood movies. Many of the stories are very good. These stories have been around for a long time and I have always been intrigue by them though I do not believe it's possible. Some of these stories are so convincing scientist are investigating the possibility and many believe. They say time can be bent or looped and what we considered dead and passe can still be visited. However I do believe it is possible to go into the future by traveling faster than time or slow it down perhaps. But it can't be stopped or put in reverse. It's a one way trip, there is no returning to the past. The past is dead, done, gone. Time is always moving forward always evolving. I believe that to be one of the laws of the T.O.E.

[Ur-bit]

Hi,
Time possesses an oscillatory nature, it alternates between a forward and reverse direction and the feeling or sense that time flows exclusively forward is an illusion. I know this idea sounds very radical, but it’s a very powerful idea.

The relation we humans have with time is exactly the same the tiny creatures of line (one-dimensional) world have with space, in their world they have no concept of lateral motion.

When you tell them other dimensions exist, inside they're thinking, ..this guys really crazy! But what can we expect? These tiny creatures fulfill their entire existence on this line, they’re born, they live and die there. Of course, we who are reading this know better, we know there are other dimensions. We also know that for starters it is they themselves that keep themselves from further discovery.

Now as far as time is concerned it’s a little different, but still our situation is quit similar, our consciousness has never progressed beyond, in fact, in relation to time we too are confined to a single dimension, we’re only aware of time’s forward motion. We live on time’s line and we have no concept of lateral motion!

What does it mean lateral motion? Well, I really can’t take this analogy any further, but I think the message is clear; if we want to really understand time we have to think very different about it.

Though we’ve attained, with our current concept of time, the high level of knowledge we currently posses, if we want to progress any further we must begin to see time from a (very) different perspective.

The quest we’re on, demands of us the same leap in understanding that the creatures of line world require to comprehend, that in fact, other dimensions exist and can be made available to them. The task at hand is not easy.

By the way, the creatures of line world have a lot of romantic notions about many aspect of their world, a lot of them based on the intuitive grasp they posses of their universe, we also have many.

Ahhhh, time travel! So many stories, so many movies, if only it were true! I’m sorry but time travel like HG Wells, The Time Machine, there is no such thing.

Not only is the truth about time very radical, but the fact that it dashes one of our most cherished notions, time travel, against the rocks is simply unbearable.

But that’s the price of growing up. I remember how devastating it felt when I finally learned Santa Clause was make-believe, that innocence felt so good. As I grew up other things took its place and I learned Christmas had a greater meaning.

Because time only manifests a forward and reverse direction we can’t really talk about past time or future time. Science acknowledges (when it’s confronted) past and future don’t exist, but because they don’t have anything to replace these words with, they continue to use the terminology.

They even use it in there space-time diagrams, perhaps most of you are familiar with the basic diagram. It consists of double light cones connected at their vertices, the top (light)cone is the future and the bottom cone represents the past and the point in the middle represents the present.

If you change the word future with forward and past with reverse and eliminate the word present and in its place use the word zero, you now have an amazing tool. It’s a key for understanding, many mysteries.

Regards

[swoarg]

hi there
very interesting MJA and my thoughts are fiarly simular to yours i have very very limited knowledge of most threads i read on this forum simply because most threads i have an interest in apear to rely on rules and laws of the universe and i dont find many stepping out of the box (fully) maybe into science fiction, but for us to step forward we must have new ideas and i am sure that time is a measurement of motion but there is another time that we are over looking and denying because of the rules that we are govend by .
in my life i have no watch no clock no were in my house to tell me the time and to find the time i have to turn on my pc or tv ,my alarm clock is allways set fast and changed regulary so i never know the real time and when i am not working i turn it of
why, i seem to feel restricted once i find out what the time is

[MJA]

Originally Posted by swoarg hi there very interesting MJA and my thoughts are fiarly simular to yours i have very very limited knowledge of most threads i read on this forum simply because most threads i have an interest in apear to rely on rules and laws of the universe and i dont find many stepping out of the box (fully) maybe into science fiction, but for us to step forward we must have new ideas and i am sure that time is a measurement of motion but there is another time that we are over looking and denying because of the rules that we are govend by . in my life i have no watch no clock no were in my house to tell me the time and to find the time i have to turn on my pc or tv ,my alarm clock is allways set fast and changed regulary so i never know the real time and when i am not working i turn it of why, i seem to feel restricted once i find out what the time is

Really nice thoughts about the importance of time, Thanks.

Life without restriction, laws, or governance is freedom.
Keep goin, your on the right track!
Only be governed by right.

=
MJA

[Profpat]

" Life without restriction, laws, or governance is freedom. "

Or maybe a better word than freedom would be Chaos

[swoarg]

thanks MJA but i think Pat has a good point,
when i am not on time (late or early) it effects others and chaos starts i am in affect creating chaos

[MJA]

Originally Posted by swoarg thanks MJA but i think Pat has a good point, when i am not on time (late or early) it effects others and chaos starts i am in affect creating chaos

"The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be." Lau Tzu

=
MJA