[Profpat]

Originally Posted by dolly what may be considered evil to a person/persons may not be evil to another. how can the root be determined if evil is indeterminable.

Hi Dolly;

I too believe evil is relative and not absolute. The examples I usually use is freedom fighter or terrorist.

We have the Commandment " Thou shall not kill "
What about suicide, war. abortion, capital punishment, self defense, euthanasia, etc ?

These things only God and the individual person can judge.

I agree with Drifter that we do have our own personal conscience we must follow, and I believe in most situations we would agree on what is right or wrong.

So in the words of Spike Lee "DO THE RIGHT THING"

Best to you,

Pat

[Drifter]

Good analogies Profpat.
Two more for your consideration.

From the Hindu Holy Writings:
Consider the soul as riding in a chariot. The body is the chariot; the intellect is the chariot-driver; and the mind is the reins. The senses, they say, are as the horses; and the objects of sensation are what they range over ... He who has not understanding, whose mind is not constantly held firm, whose senses are uncontrolled, this is like a bad charioteer with unruly horses. He however who has understanding, whose mind is constantly held firm, whose senses are under control, this is like a good charioteer with trained horses.

From the Baha’i Holy Writings:
In creation there is no evil; all is good. Certain qualities and natures innate in some men and apparently blameworthy are not so in reality. For example, from the beginning of his life you can see in a nursing child the signs of greed, of anger and of temper. Then, it may be said, good and evil are innate in the reality of man, and this is contrary to the pure goodness of nature and creation. The answer to this is that greed, which is to ask for something more, is a praiseworthy quality provided that it is used suitably. So if a man is greedy to acquire science and knowledge, or to become compassionate, generous and just, it is most praiseworthy. If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy; but if he does not use these qualities in a right way, they are blameworthy.


D.

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Dolly; I too believe evil is relative and not absolute. The examples I usually use is freedom fighter or terrorist. We have the Commandment " Thou shall not kill " What about suicide, war. abortion, capital punishment, self defense, euthanasia, etc ? These things only God and the individual person can judge. I agree with Drifter that we do have our own personal conscience we must follow, and I believe in most situations we would agree on what is right or wrong. So in the words of Spike Lee "DO THE RIGHT THING" Best to you, Pat

[MJA]

I have a question that I need help with.

Edmund Burke, an Irish philosopher from the 18th century wrote:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
Do the TOE Questers agree with Burke, or does it take the force of action to conquer evil?

Thanks,

=
MJA

[mkirkpatrick]

Ignorance and out-of-alignment coupled with gross self-centeredness are the root of all
the ills of the world.




regards michael.

[Profpat]

Hi Drifter;

Poor old Krishna if he is riding in my chariot.

Need I say more?

[Drifter]

There are two ways to approach this.
Literally and/or figuratively.
If a person cannot find the inner power to control the force's of evil within himself.
The "Hidden Determinants of Human Behavior."
Then society, in most instances, will force his compliance against the force's of evil within that man for the good of the community.
So the final solution rest initially with each person. imho





In the final analysis, it's simply a matter of which wolf you listen too.

TWO WOLVESOne evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a
battle that goes on inside people.


He said, "My son, the battle is between two
"wolves" inside us all.



One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret,
greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false-
pride, superiority, and ego.



The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."



The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather:


"Which wolf wins?"



The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

Originally Posted by MJA I have a question that I need help with. Edmund Burke, an Irish philosopher from the 18th century wrote: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Do the TOE Questers agree with Burke, or does it take the force of action to conquer evil? Thanks, = MJA

[Drifter]

Each person has a myriad of personalities within them in which manner they could choose to respond to the dictates of subversive thoughts.
The higher man, the man of good conscience, chooses the superior path to developing his character. Not allowing his ego [emotions, urges and desires]to run away with him.

[MJA]

Well said and well Drifter, A big Thanks

=
MJA

[Drifter]

The fertile ground of the Mind.
Is sown by the thoughts we entertain.

As an aside:

"Man is the sole being in the natural order who is not compelled to pursue
the same road invariably."
__Claude de St. Martin
__
__The Mundaka Upanishad provides the archetypal image of the spiritual
archer. His is the unremitting quest for divine wisdom, seeking complete
unison with Brahman, the ultimate Reality. In this quest there must be no
thoughtlessness. Lack of thought is a serious impediment to the cultivation
of skill in the art of creative action. At the same time, The Voice of the
Silence enjoins disciples to free themselves from all particular thoughts
and be attuned to All-Thought.

__Thou hast to reach that fixity of mind in which no breeze, however
strong, can waft an earthly thought within. Thus purified, the shrine must
of all action, sound, or earthly light be void; e'en as the butterfly,
o'ertaken by the frost, falls lifeless at the threshold - so must all
earthly thoughts fall dead before the fane.

__Wherein lies the difference between thoughtlessness and that state of
transcendence which is rooted in a serene identification with the Divine
Mind?

__There are myriad paradoxes in relation to the spiritual path, as everyone
knows who makes a strenuous attempt to incarnate in daily life the
immeasurable wisdom of Brahma Vach. These paradoxes are pertinent for anyone
who is in earnest, who is not merely ready to plunge into the stream, but
who has already entered the stream as a srotapatti and laved in its rushing
waters. There are those who delay this crucial step for lifetimes, even
after the privilege of contacting the presence of great Teachers from the
Lodge of Mahatmas. They are afraid to take the first step into the stream.
But those who have soaked in the struggle know that the recurring paradoxes
are far from being instantly resolved, especially by the ratiocinative mind
with its obsessive craving for certitude. Mystical paradoxes deepen as veil
upon veil lifts and one finds veil upon veil behind. This must be so, for
otherwise we would live in a static universe and Mahatmas would be but icons
to be worshipped, like the discarded archangels of the past, periodically
placated out of fear or the wish for favours. There is none of this in the
vast philosophical cosmogony of the Secret Doctrine. It postulates one
universal stream of consciousness which, at its source, is unconditioned and
beyond all forms, qualities, colours and representations, beyond every
finite locus in space-time. But equally, within this immense stream of
encompassing and transcending consciousness, everything counts. Every being
is significant and every single error has its consequence. It is difficult
to accommodate so awesome a conception within one's mind and to insert one's
own odyssey into the vaster odyssey of all. There is nothing in our
upbringing, nothing in the limiting language of common conversation and
trivial talk, that can sufficiently prepare one for the grandeur of the
enterprise, so that one may feel the authentic joy of comradeship with the
mightiest men of meditation. They are the immortal embodiments of universal
Mahat who can, with a casual, relaxed and joyful sense of proportionality,
hit the mark amidst the limitations of collective Karma. This means,
paradoxically, that they cannot hit the mark every single time either, and
this too is involved in hitting the mark.

__The root of these paradoxes in relation to thoughtfulness and
transcendence lies in the insuperable problem of formulating the aim. The
aim cannot be anything less than Brahman. That is the eternal hope. Every
single act can have that aim because each act focusses upon a specific
target in time and space which is Brahman. That is, at one level, the joy
and the absurdity of it. In every act of manifestation - bathing, walking,
mailing a message - the Logos is present. There is a sense in which the
aim - the transcendental Brahman - is present in each moment of time as well
as in every act at each point of space and in every thought. What, then,
obscures the aim of a manifold human being of becoming totally one and
remaining constantly attuned to Brahman? Why does a person need the sacred
OM as the bow and to be continually tuning all one's instruments? Can one
ever receive in a world of shadowy knowledge any real teaching concerning
the inward meaning of the Soundless Sound? Who will teach the true
intonation of the OM and everything to which it corresponds in thought,
motive, act and feeling? As the mystery deepens, one must come to recognize
that even in the largest perspectives of life, one can discern something
that is false and which obscures still greater realities.

__The correction that needs to be made in the lesser perspective is
archetypally related to the correction needed in the larger perspective.
Whenever one has a sense of self-encouraging exaggeration - not only
verbally or in terms of external expression, but in the feeling-content and
motivational coloration of particular thoughts - there is falsity and
distortion. Brahman could not be in everything if each single thing does not
appropriately mirror Brahman and, in an ever-changing universe, recede into
non-being. There is an intrinsic illusoriness in the shadowy self that
emerges like a smoky haze. In Platonic language, this temporary excess
necessarily implies temporal deficiency and therefore imbalance. This may
become obsessional - like infatuation - and all cognate thoughts are thereby
tainted. The condition is even worse for a person lacking in mental
steadiness. One discovers this speedily when one really wants to concentrate
on something and even more painfully when one sits down to meditation. The
moment one tries to meditate on that which is above and beyond and includes
all, one confronts limitations in one's conception of selfhood. There is no
way even to ponder the profoundest of vows, the holiest motive of the
Bodhisattvas, in relation to the ceaseless quest for the sake of every
sentient being. One will encounter a multitude of hindrances. Most thoughts
are premature, feeble and abortive. One is not truly awake, but is rather in
a dizzy phantasmagoria in which distorted shadows flit. Through an illusory
sense of self, one is attached to a misshapen bundle of memories and
identified with a form, an image and a name. Persisting thoughtlessness
means that one has fallen into a state of fragmented consciousness, and this
is not only owing to the imperfections shared with all other human beings,
but also through an irreverent attitude to the vestures brought over from
previous lives. Such are the scars of failures from former times of
opportunity to strengthen and perfect the spiritual will for the sake of
universal good. Myriad are the ways in which many souls have frequently
failed over an immense period of evolution.

Hermes, June 1978
Raghavan Iyer

[Drifter]

"
THE CREATOR

There are two types of creators in the world: one type of creator works with objects a poet, a painter, they work with objects, they create things, the other type of creator, the mystic, creates himself. He doesn't work with objects, he works with the subject; he works on himself, his own being. And he is the real creator, the real poet because he makes himself into a masterpiece.
You are carrying a masterpiece hidden within you, but you are standing in the way. Just move aside, then the masterpiece will be revealed. Everyone is a masterpiece, because God never gives birth to anything less that that. Everyone carries that masterpiece hidden for many lives, not knowing who they are, and just trying on the surface to become someone.
Drop the idea of becoming someone, because you already are a masterpiece. You cannot be improved. You have only to come to it, to know it, to realize it. God has himself created you, you cannot be improved.

The god that has created you is not separate from you. Remember GOD is only a concept giving meaning to THIS arising IS-ness the dream.

When people come to this realization all suffering will cease,
it will still arise, but we will no longer be emotionally affected by it,
we will not identify with it as being something we want to get rid of,
we will see it for what it really is, a lesson for us to awaken to our true
identity, this is otherwise known as awakening ... or our heaven on earth.

Where else is our heaven going to be but here on earth?"

~Melanie