[melanie]

Originally Posted by Drifter The tip-of-the-A.D.D.-iceberg. brrrrrrh. Attention is the tax we pay for being Human . . . It's all Relative, or Is It . . .

Our 'conscience' already knows right from wrong.

It is our inattention or misuse of that knowledge that demands attention.

That is our responsibility.The tax we pay for our human-ness

[Drifter]

Knowledge is power and with it we lose our innocence.

Knowing power we also know 'force', the other side of it.

Originally Posted by melanie Yes! I would say ...It is cold around the periphery. If we are not accepting of this moment, and we are living in the imaginary past or future. We are unconsciously controlling events that are beyond our control. If however we surrender our apparent sense of 'separateness' We come together as one,and what seemed to be hidden is revealed to us. We will no longer feel ice-olated And evil will be relinquished. Excerpt from Deepak... When you struggle against this moment, you're actually struggling against the entire universe. Instead, you can make the decision that today you will not struggle against the whole universe by struggling against this moment. This means that your acceptance of this moment is total and complete. You accept things as they are, not as you wish they were in this moment. This is important to understand. You can wish for things in the future to be different, but in this moment you have to accept things as they are.

[Drifter]

I thought his relevant to the Thread topic and the Power vs. Force concept.

Easy reading for a leisurely Sunday morning contemplation . . .


> We, old Theosophists, are like people standing on a rocky cliff
> and watching the waves dashing against its foot; the waves, in
> our case, are the assults of the impotent critics of the
> Ancient Wisdom, that living rock of philosophy which stands firm
> and unshaken from age to age amid the fugitive changes of
> dogmatic theology.
>
> H.S. Olcott, OLD DIARY LEAVES, V, page 128.

----------------------------------------------------------
HYPOCRISY OR IGNORANCE

By W.Q. Judge

[From THE PATH, December 1891, pages 268-70, under the penname
Eusebio Urban, reprinted in ECHOES OF THE ORIENT, I, pages
203-4.]

There are some members of the Theosophical Society who expose
themselves to the charge of indulging in hypocrisy or being
ignorant about their own failings and shortcomings. They are
those who, having studied the literature of the movement and
accepted most of its doctrines, then talk either to
fellow-members or to outsiders as if the goal of renunciation and
universal knowledge had been reached in their case, when a very
slight observation reveals them as quite ordinary human beings.

If one accepts the doctrine of Universal Brotherhood, which is
based on the essential unity of all human beings, there is a long
distance yet intervening between that acceptation and its
realization, even in those who have adopted the doctrine. It is
just the difference between intellectual assent to a moral,
philosophical, or occult law, and its perfect development in
one's being so that it has become an actual part of us. So when
we hear a Theosophist say that he could see his children, wife,
or parents die and not feel anything whatever, we must infer that
there is a hypocritical pretension or very great ignorance.
There is one other conclusion left, which is that we have before
us a monster that is incapable of any feeling whatever,
selfishness being over-dominant.

The doctrines of Theosophy do not ask for nor lead to the cutting
out of the human heart of every human feeling. Indeed, that is
impossibility, one would think, seeing that the feelings are an
integral part of the constitution of man, for in the principle
called Kama -- the desires and feelings -- we have the basis of
all our emotions, and if it is prematurely cut out of any being,
death or worse must result. It is very true that Theosophy, as
well as all ethical systems, demands that the being who has
conscience and will, such as are found in man, shall control this
principle of Kama and not be carried away by it nor be under its
sway. This is self-control, mastery of the human body,
steadiness in the face of affliction, but it is not extirpation
of the feelings which one has to control.

If any Theosophical book deals with this subject, it is THE
BHAGAVAD-GITA, and in that Krishna is constantly engaged in
enforcing the doctrine that all the emotions are to be
controlled, that one is not to grieve over the inevitable -- such
as death, nor to be unduly elated at success, nor to be cast down
by failure, but to maintain an equal mind in every event,
whatever it may be, satisfied and assured that the qualities move
in the body in their own sphere. In no place does he say that we
are to attempt the impossible task of cutting out of the inner
man an integral part of himself.

But, unlike most other systems of ethics, Theosophy is scientific
as well, and this science is not attained just when one
approaching it for the first time in this incarnation hears of
and intellectually agrees to these high doctrines. For one
cannot pretend to have reached the perfection and detachment from
human affairs involved in the pretentious statement referred to,
when even as the words are uttered the hearer perceives remaining
in the speaker all the peculiarities of family, not to speak of
those pertaining to nation, including education, and to the race
in which he was born.

This scientific part of Theosophy, beginning and ending with
universal brotherhood, insists upon such an intense and
ever-present thought upon the subject, coupled with a constant
watch over all faults of mind and speech, that in time an actual
change is produced in the material person, as well as in the
immaterial one within whom is the mediator or way between the
purely corporal lower man and his Higher divine self. This
change, it is very obvious, cannot come about at once nor in the
course of years of effort.

The charge of pretension and ignorance is more grave still in the
case of those Theosophists guilty of the fault, who happen to
believe -- as so many do -- that even in those disciples whose
duties in the world are nil from the very beginning, and who have
devoted themselves to self-renunciation and self-study so long
that they are immeasurably beyond the members of our Society, the
defects due to family, tribal, and national inheritance are now
and then observable.

It seems to be time, then, that no Theosophist shall ever be
guilty of making pretension to any one that he or she has
attained to the high place which now and then some assume to have
reached. Much better is it to be conscious of our defects and
weaknesses, always ready to acknowledge the truth that, being
human, we are not able to always or quickly reach the goal of
effort.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Drifter Knowledge is power and with it we lose our innocence. Knowing power we also know 'force', the other side of it.

Like a child led by it's parent..... 'We' are the controlled.

To go against the 'Primal Force' by assuming a 'separate entity' being the mover of the 'primal force'

Is a going against the very nature of the natural laws of the universe.

Which is 'The primal force' appearing AS 'us'

[Drifter]

Sometimes, it's just too much T.V.

Mr. Potato Head - Darth Tater

[Drifter]

Seen this?

Store Wars

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E

[melanie]

This is very useful information. Drifter..... Thanks.

Quote...
The charge of pretension and ignorance is more grave still in the
case of those Theosophists guilty of the fault, who happen to
believe -- as so many do -- that even in those disciples whose
duties in the world are nil from the very beginning, and who have
devoted themselves to self-renunciation and self-study so long
that they are immeasurably beyond the members of our Society, the
defects due to family, tribal, and national inheritance are now
and then observable.

It seems to be time, then, that no Theosophist shall ever be
guilty of making pretension to any one that he or she has
attained to the high place which now and then some assume to have
reached. Much better is it to be conscious of our defects and
weaknesses, always ready to acknowledge the truth that, being
human, we are not able to always or quickly reach the goal of
effort.


We are what we only pretend to be. So we must be careful about what we pretend to be. ~ Kurt Vonnegut


Any number of philosophies maintaining that a knowledge of God may be achieved through spiritual ecstasy, direct intuition, or special individual relations.

Our 'conscience' already knows ... And it ain't nothing special... unless it is! .. lol

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Drifter Seen this? Store Wars http://youtube.com/watch?v=hVrIyEu6h_E

Yes i've seen it.

It is very true.

We are moving further and further away from our natural beingness.

TV & Materialism .... is poisoning our fresh fertile young minds. It is sad.

It's a self feeding cycle .... The consumers demand for more stimulation, anything to take away the boredom.

The boredom of reality. What a paradox.

Knowing THIS IS-ness AS being the eternal every-thing and no-thing.
Is the peace that passes all understanding.

[melanie]

Drifter: Stick around Love. Pats just being an idiot trying to impress the girls as being "Kid Galant". Besides, I think his real issue's with me, not you. Maybe a little too much "Chivas Regal", who knows, who cares. Love Ya Please don't go? D.

We are ONE being ....Why else does our conscience rattle when we see injustice and unfairness.
We see the suffering on the news and we are moved because those that suffer, could be anyone of us, and out of empathy we feel emotional and sad at what we see.
We look on helplessly.
Sometimes we turn a blind eye because of our helplessness and limitations.
We are not Watching the World We are The World
When 1 person is hurting or being treated unfairly ... it effects all of us.
Some of us have become so desensitized to this truth.
We are here to express our unique being trading and sharing our personal relative truths, out of compassion for the whole of humanity.
A survival mechanism.

Originally Posted by melanie Drifter you take my breath away .......Raptured souls together. I'm not coming back here to this forum. When we are accused of hijacking here. This is not my world of reasoning i came in peace and love. To spread the word, the message of salvation. But i'm not welcome, i am accused of high jak in So I'm going to bask in my own bliss. Alone. To hell with the rest of you. This is all screwed up pat. It'll be screwed until it isn't ......no worries ....thanks for everything.

[futrethink]

leskey.
---I know that I am breaking up your entire concept, but I am just showing my agreement, disagreement and questions to/for each of the separate parts.

Thought precedes action.

---Thought or instinct, but yeah, that is the basics.

So, "the thought" lead to "the action."

---True.

"The thought" was "the sin." "The sin" was the very first perception of an "other." Whereas A&E had previously only sensed/known their unity/oneness, they were now aware of their differences and it was an anathema to them.

---So being separate and being aware that they were separate, even as they were still one with the unity/oneness caused them to feel sin or that it was wrong?
---That is quite likely.
---The idea/knowledge, that there is something outside of what is known within the Garden, could be what the fruit of the tree gave to Adam & Eve. What do you think?
---I think the thought that ‘love’ is the root cause of ‘evil’, on that level of perception, could be what Tina might be thinking about, though.