[Tina]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Well .... no ... I don't really agree. I would say that all life is amoral. Human included......However, to temper this statement, compassion and care are also excellent survival traits. So 'evil' may be judged as that which opposes this end. cool bananas ... greg [PS: don't forget the thread Evolution .. Fact and Theory]

Re: Debate (Actually I'm really scared!) But when I pull myself together I post.OK.

Once maybe clobbering the opposition on the head with a rock may have been necessary for survival...but for over 6000yrs we have had technology that has allowed the "anti-life" humans to have dictate the terms of survival. Weapons don't equal strong genes! What it has ensured is the survival of a certain type of mentality.

(In earlier post some discussed EVIL as reverse of LIVE. So can I suggest that your statement (reworded) below reads:

'evil' may be judged as that which opposes LIFE.

Why did the human choose "morality" as survival route? And this is assuming morality has much to do with our problems.

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Tina Re: Debate (Actually I'm really scared!) But when I pull myself together I post.OK.

Hey ... I'm a nobody. I had to read the Wiki on Lamarkian Theory. I'm impressed. I think you are in OZ. Did u see Channel 2 the other night. It was all about the resurrection of neo-lamarckian ideas with some excellent lab results ??

Originally Posted by Tina Once maybe clobbering the opposition on the head with a rock may have been necessary for survival...but for over 6000yrs we have had technology that has allowed the "anti-life" humans to have dictate the terms of survival. Weapons don't equal strong genes! What it has ensured is the survival of a certain type of mentality.

There is no difference here. Strong Genes are not necessarily the most fit genes. If you kill with a bigger weapon you ensure your percentage DNA increase in the gene pool. in this sense you have the 'strong' genes. I see no great difference in our humanity or intelligence since our speciation 100,000 years ago. Our genes have certainly not changed. if you could travel back and steal a child from a Homo-Sapiens that lived 100,000 years ago and return to the present with that child .. then .. he/she would grow up as a normal person becoming a brain-surgeon, astronaut, or even someone posting on this forum.

Originally Posted by Tina (In earlier post some discussed EVIL as reverse of LIVE. So can I suggest that your statement (reworded) below reads:'evil' may be judged as that which opposes LIFE.

Yes ... thats cool .. I had never spelt it backwards before !!

Originally Posted by Tina Why did the human choose "morality" as survival route? And this is assuming morality has much to do with our problems.

I am wary of the word 'choose' here. Lets say a genetic mutation occurred in one person and the mutation consisted of a more compassionate reaction to situations. Less violence and agression.

Lets say this mutation allowed that person to live a little bit longer than average, possibly thru a returned favour from another of the tribe, through someone else sharing their food with this person as a result of some past action, or something similar.

Lets assume this little bit of 'extra life' allowed this person to procreate one more time. In other words, one extra child ... and so pass on 'compassionate' genes.

This persons offspring now occupy a slightly, ever so slightly higher percentage of the gene pool. And all these offspring are slightly more compassionate. And so it goes on, and on, always increasing until the most agressive individuals genes are occupying a lesser and lesser percentage of the pool. Eventually we are all descended from this one compassionate mutation.

This may sound far-fetched but the human genome mapping project which is testing as many races and individuals as possible is discovering these 'Milestone' individuals or ' 'Adams' and has found direct descendants who are still living on the same spot. We are all related to these 'Adams'.

cool bananas ... greg

[Tina]

QUOTE=Graybeard;35662]

Missed ABC program (#$%&*$+*$@!!!)

Our genes have certainly not changed.

Yes they have in many ways - we have built up immune systems for a start and the human brain size (cerebral cortex) of homo sapien sapien reached its current capacity size approx 10,000 years ago. (I'll check this though).

I had never spelt it backwards before !!

It is also interesting to note the other tree in Eden (which they could eat from) was "THE TREE OF LIFE"???

I am wary of the word 'choose' here.

Judeo/ Christian/Muslim religions are not short of customers.

Lets say this mutation...

Too speculative for an answer. You are basically saying it proved pragmatic to be nice.

...and so pass on 'compassionate' genes.

Genes actually don't have a personality. Compassion is a feeling/emotion an extension of basic instinctive emotion of SADDNESS. Intellect then thinks of possitive ways to respond....thus compassionate actions.

... We are all related to these 'Adams'.

I know!

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Eisenhower, with great wisdom, ordered that the conquered people wherever possible, be made to view the concentration camps. All this was recorded on film and audio. This was done so that in later years, our memories being so selective and so short, it could not be claimed that it never happened. This was only one horror aspect of the war. 60 million people died, 20 million in Russia alone. Stories can be told of horrors equalling the concentration camps in Germany. If you don't identify with it, how can you ever understand it, or identify, in the future, causes that lead to it? Hitler was a human being just like us. This is what we are capable of. To deny this is to revisit history. Your understanding of the devil does not appear to have been updated since Sunday School ? cool bananas ... greg

You are right It was not updated because I did not believe in the devil as taught in Sunday school. I do however have vision of a cumulative evil. We can see a bit of this in our capital system. Each person does his or her little thing and thinks that it will never hurt anybody. But all of these little things are cumulative. When you go to the store and try to cash a check, but can not. You know that your check is perfectly good, but it still will not cash. You are paying for the cumulative sins of others. This is only a very minor example of the cumulative evil. When you walk down the street in Boston and nobody even looks at you. Don’t you know that you and they are both suffering the cumulative evil. I think the devil is not a sufficient term for this. This is the beast. The Holy Spirit is a cumulative entity. What frightens me is that we are closer to developing the cumulative entity of the beast. Not the root of all evil, but the climax of evil.
John

[Profpat]

Hi all;

Todays guess is: THE COKE BOTTLE

If you haven't seen " The God's Must Be Crazy " It represents personal possessions.

So thats my guess: Personal Property.

Best,

Pat

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Tina graybeard ...Our genes have certainly not changed. Tina ...Yes they have in many ways - we have built up immune systems for a start and the human brain size (cerebral cortex) of homo sapien sapien reached its current capacity size approx 10,000 years ago. (I'll check this though).

Perhaps I should have qualified this. Variations have occurred. Skin Colour, Build, Sexual Preferences, etc. But these are only minute random changes in our DNA. All Homo Sapiens have nearly identical DNA, we only vary from chimpanzees by around 2%. When DNA varies to the point where speciation occurs then a change has occurred as opposed to variation. Speciation is the point where a single species has varied in two isolated communities so that precreation no longer occurs or is possible. Say between us and Neanderthal. (this is not a hard and fast rule)

Originally Posted by Tina Graybeard ... Lets say this mutation... Tina ... Too speculative for an answer. You are basically saying it proved pragmatic to be nice.

Well ... I'll give you this one. But yes, I am basically saying that it proved beneficial (pragmatic) to be nice

Originally Posted by Tina Graybeard ......and so pass on 'compassionate' genes. Tina ... Genes actually don't have a personality. Compassion is a feeling/emotion an extension of basic instinctive emotion of SADDNESS. Intellect then thinks of possitive ways to respond....thus compassionate actions.

Wow ... This is going to be tough! Without spelling out all the biology, here I am referring to the underlying chemical makeup that is responsible for our moods, etc. and governed by the DNA we inherited ..

cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by everymansmedium In this case to identify with the root of all evil causes it to happen. This is worse than the true evil one. At least there would be only one devil. But those like Hitler could just pop out of anywhere. In this case what might have been the cause that made him think he was the antichrist? This would be the root of his evil. John.

John .. I agree with the rightness of what you are saying. You say you don't believe in the devil as taught in sunday school. I don't believe in the devil at all.

To believe in the devil is to isolate bad from good. "There's Iblis, he's responsible for all evil. He's over there, lets keep him away from us, we're good"

Good and Evil cannot be classified like this. They are part of circumstance and times. Whats evil to you may be good to me.

You prefer to say Hitler was the ultimate personification of evil. He was just a man. Not even a very smart one. He was the product of the German peoples desire to regain some dignity and quality of life after the horrendous restrictions we (The Goodies) placed on them after the First World War.

The reason you see a cumulative evil is because it is juxtaposed beside a cumulative good. But you make no mention of this ?

Originally Posted by everymansmedium I do however have vision of a cumulative evil. When you go to the store and try to cash a check, but can not. You know that your check is perfectly good, but it still will not cash. You are paying for the cumulative sins of others.

The cheque you have in your hand, which will ultimately be cashed, is the result of a communal cumulative good. It reeks of trust. That trust is redeemable when you cash it.

Originally Posted by everymansmedium When you walk down the street in Boston and nobody even looks at you. Don’t you know that you and they are both suffering the cumulative evil. I think the devil is not a sufficient term for this. This is the beast.

But if you step into a bar someone will talk to you. This is not the beast. It is just humanity in its secure / insecure behaviour.

Originally Posted by everymansmedium The Holy Spirit is a cumulative entity. What frightens me is that we are closer to developing the cumulative entity of the beast. Not the root of all evil, but the climax of evil.

Isaac Newton claims that the trinity can be traced to three warring states in early Europe that made a peace treaty where their three different religions were 'incorporated'. He was closer to the source than us and he was an exceptional, possibly unique, individual

John I think you take a pessimistic view while I have a more optimistic one, however I do agree that we should set good examples and prevent evil where ever we can

cool bananas ... greg

[mkirkpatrick]

The root lies in exclusivity,rather than inclusivity.



regards michael.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi all; Todays guess is: THE COKE BOTTLE If you haven't seen " The God's Must Be Crazy " It represents personal possessions. So thats my guess: Personal Property. Best, Pat

I'm impressed Profpat!!!

But it didn't represent personal possesions as such - this was a symptom.

Yet like the coke bottle (a symbol for a cause) evil come into the lives of perfectly happy humans and you know the rest.....

[NAME THE REAL THING]

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by Tina I'm impressed Profpat!!! But it didn't represent personal possesions as such - this was a symptom. Yet like the coke bottle (a symbol for a cause) evil come into the lives of perfectly happy humans and you know the rest..... [NAME THE REAL THING]

But it's my thing. Mine. All mine and I'm not going to share it unless I want to. It gives me the greatest personal pleasure.


Best to you Tina,

Pat