[safwan]

Originally Posted by Tina HI - LONG TIME NO SEE! CHEMICALS! CHEMICALS! CHEMICALS! AND WHAT PUMPS YE OLDE KEMICALS INTO ACTION? [KEEP TRYING - WE ARE NEARLY THERE]

Here's one Evolutionary Explanation:

Aggression can be examined in terms of its ability to help an animal reproduce and survive. Aggression and the capacity for murder are products of our evolutionary past. Humans are similar to non-human animals in some aspects of aggression, they differ from most of these animals in the complexity of their aggression Something went terribly wrong along the evolutionary way, leaving homo sapiens uniquely prone to extreme transgression, with a baffling and enormous propensity for evil. Humans deliberately torture their fellows or carry out the wholesale and systematic slaughter of unthreatening and helpless individuals. Homo sapiens (thinking apes with superior intellect) wiped out other homo species, to become the only family of mammals with just one representative. All other homo species, such as Neanderthal Man, were annihilated by our ancestors. Religion became necessary to regulate and tame this dark side of human nature. The idea of "evil" itself is evolving along the way.

Regards, Safwan

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by safwan Here's one Evolutionary Explanation: 1.. Something went terribly wrong along the evolutionary way, leaving homo sapiens uniquely prone to extreme transgression, with a baffling and enormous propensity for evil. ..................... 2.. All other homo species, such as Neanderthal Man, were annihilated by our ancestors. Regards, Safwan

Safwan ...

This is good. I agree with you. Apart from the 2 quotes above.

1.. Nothing went wrong. Hominids by walking on two legs freed up their arms and chest allowing them to communicate more efficiently than any other species. With shared communication tools and fire were quickly tamed leading to (comparable to other species) large amounts of 'leisure' time. These communal fireside reveries led to more efficient methods of utilising resources.

We don't have a propensity towards evil, we are just more efficient at it, and we have a better insight (appreciation?) into it. Just as we are more efficient at being good. We are evolving in the right direction, not the wrong! Neanderthal was 10 times stronger than us and was a very agressive and violent hunter.

2.. Species have come and gone in thousands since we were slime. The average for any species is 4 million years. Ants have been around for 600 million. Dinosaurs were here for 250 million. We (hominids) have been here for 2 million (possibly up to 7 million) ... its doubtful, you must admit, that we will make 4 million. We never wiped out all other hominids. We only shared with Neanderthal. We both descended from Homo-Ergaster (future rain check here). Around 10 Hominid species went extinct before Homo-Sapiens appeared.

Our worst crime is that we were more successful. We outcompeted all comers for scarce resources.

But basically you and I agree. Good Post. here is a quote I hope you like.

"We were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our sympathies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted to battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses." Robert Ardrey (b. 1908-10-16 in Chicago, Illinois; d. 1980-01-14 in South Africa) was an anthropologist, playwright and screenwriter.

cool bananas ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

Robert Ardley's 'African Genesis' is one of my favorite books, not just for the information, although that would stiil have made it, but also for the way he expressed evolution and the human condition.

[Graybeard]

Far out Austin ... I didn't know he had written a book. I only knew the quote which has always impressed me.

Thanks for that. i will see if I can purchase it at Amazon.com

cool bananas ... greg

[safwan]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Safwan ... ...Neanderthal was 10 times stronger than us and was a very agressive and violent hunter.. ... The average for any species is 4 million years. Ants have been around for 600 million. Dinosaurs were here for 250 million. We (hominids) have been here for 2 million (possibly up to 7 million) ... its doubtful, you must admit, that we will make 4 million..

Thanks Greg for a most interesting and informative response. I have 3 questions, to you and Tina, if I may:

1. Neanderthals were stronger, more aggressive, and violent, but were they more evil than Homo sapiens?

2. Do you agree that "evil" is a function of (aggressiveness + cunning)?

3. Why do you doubt that we will make the 4 million years benchmark? What risks are there?

Best regards, Safwan

[Tina]

Originally Posted by safwan Thanks Greg for a most interesting and informative response. I have 3 questions, to you and Tina, if I may: 1. Neanderthals were stronger, more aggressive, and violent, but were they more evil than Homo sapiens? 2. Do you agree that "evil" is a function of (aggressiveness + cunning)? 3. Why do you doubt that we will make the 4 million years benchmark? What risks are there? Best regards, Safwan

1)Neanderthals were, for a time, contemparary with homo sapiens. They also were probably the first victims of Homo sapien genocide. Many of their remains show considerable trauma to bones - and also bones pierced with flint arrows. I don't know anything about Neanderthals being more aggressive or 'evil' and I have no idea why you would think this.

2)Animal reality is pure INSTINCT. Instinct is like Wisdom if you think about it.

The human has escaped animal reality and has two primary motivators EMOTION & INTELLECT. This makes us actually much less wiser than an animal...but it is the essence of free-will!

But your question is about aggression and cunning. A spider uses its wed to trap flies - but no moral issue here - this is the efficient way to get best food. Fact of the spiders life and spider obeys instinctively.

In human life "cunning" is an issue of deliberate deception

"Aggression" is an issue of a type of expression of anger

Neither are necessary for out survival - but many favour these methods.

3) I have no idea how long we can go on...geophysics may solve that question for us.

[MJA]

Originally Posted by safwan 2. Do you agree that "evil" is a function of (aggressiveness + cunning)?

Evil is a symptom of a sick or unhealthy mind.
Evolution of time is a medicine or cure.

=
MJA

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by MJA Evil is a symptom of a sick or unhealthy mind. Evolution of time is a medicine or cure. = MJA

That is a most interesting notion MJA,within the notion,lies a vast ocean?



regards michael.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by MJA Evil is a symptom of a sick or unhealthy mind. Evolution of time is a medicine or cure. = MJA

Yes MJA but I often despair that our minds are incurable.

[Profpat]

Hi Tina;

What about one of the 7 deadly sins. I think most may have already been mentioned.

Listed in the same order used by both Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th Century AD, and later by Dante Alighieri in his epic poem The Divine Comedy, the seven deadly sins are as follows: Luxuria (extravagance, later lust), Gula (gluttony), Avaritia (greed), Acedia (sloth), Ira (wrath, more commonly known as anger), Invidia (envy), and Superbia (pride).

Best to all,

Pat

P.S. After 15 pages of thread I forget what was mentioned and what wasn't. Part of the black holes in my head.