Vegetarianism is a Higher level View

[Mikal]

LW...take for example a lady I spoke with last night. She made it clear to me that in regards to money she is poor...her main diet seems to have to be processed foods as she said she cannot afford high grades of meat and other products....so what do these people do???

Myself, I have been in the know for a long time. Moderation is definitely the key for me when it comes to eating, being and staying healthy.

If we begin to correct this and it leaves an excess of food stock....how are we going to solve that...what about all the excess cattle stock that may have to be discarded?? Put it all back into the earth and we go on creating further....the toxic earth....


Mikal

[labelwench]

Yes, Mikal, change will have to be gradual, lest matters go from bad to worse.

The longest journey begins with the first step.....and charity begins at home.

We begin to make more informed choices and we help at the local level, one product, one person, one challenge at a time.

The parameters are in constant flux, yet the goal can remain constant. We may alter course or tactic without losing sight of the objective.

I bid you farewell for the present, as it is almost time for us "night stalkers" to retire, LOL.

Later,
labelwench

[MJA]

Thanks Mikal for the info,

And if you haven't yet seen: King Corn when it comes to the food we eat it's a must.

Regarding Dogs and what to feed them LW, I don't know.
I feed the not so wild birds bird seed.
My last dog died of cancer at 15 and he ate higher cost name brand food.
Is their a vegitarian dog food on the market, if so I might get another friend.

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MJA

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MJA

[Mikal]

Its always nice to have a little map so we can understand where we are at the present moment....

QUOTE- THE SCIENTIFIC OUTLOOK, Bertrand Russell, 1931

"Agriculture, for reasons which we considered in an earlier chapter, may have less importance in the future than it has at present, and has had in the past. We shall have not only artificial silk but artificial wool and artificial timber and artificial rubber. In time we may have artificial food. But in the meantime agriculture will become more and more industrialized, both in its methods and in the mentality of those who practise it. American and Canadian agriculturists have already the industrial mentality, not the mentality of the patient peasant. Machinery will, of course, be increasingly employed. In the neighbourhood of large urban markets intensive cultivation with artificial methods of warming the soil will yield many crops every year. Here and there throughout the country-side there will be large power stations forming the nucleus around which the population will cluster. Of agricultural mentality, as it has been known since ancient times, nothing will survive, since the soil and even the climate will be subject to human control." - 239

Mikal

[MJA]

Wow! Mr. Russell was so wise and so Dr. are you.

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MJA

[labelwench]

Hello MJA,

By typing in "vegetarian Dogfood", a number of resources came up. There is a book available to help one make their own pet food and there appears to be a few sources to buy prepared dogfood.

Several of the commercial brands we carry contain vegetables, but none are vegan.

For years I raced Alaskan Huskies, elite endurance athletes, and was testing formulas for a dogfood company which was soon bought out by Purina.

We were pioneering high fat levels in order to increase the caloric density for working dogs travelling 100 miles or more per day, 10 days in a row, often in temperatures exceeding -40 degrees. A very specialized diet, for the toughest sled dog race on earth.

Wild dogs eat quite a lot of plant matter and when they eat their prey, the contents of the digestive tract are also ingested. My sled dogs would ingest rosehips, cranberries and huckleberries, so I did not take them to my best patches on harvest outings.

Aside from the products I was aiding in developing, I fed very little commercial dogfood, as most brands of the time used a lot of corn and grain fillers that were not very digestible to dogs. Many brands still do.

My dogs were fed meat, liver, lard, canola oil and the test kibble. I also made special snacks of cooked rice, raw ground beef, with added tomato paste, gelatin, mashed bananas and a bit of honey. This mixture was shaped into 4 ounce meatballs and frozen. The size and texture was such, that the dogs could chew them down quickly, even in cold temperatures. (Who hasn't nipped a frozen cookie out of Mom's stash in the freezer. Same idea...)

In conclusion, if I were going to get another dog as a pet, I would formulate my own diet for it. In this climate, especially in winter, I would include meat, eggs and fat as well as veggies. In a milder climate, or with a predominantly indoor dog, one could consider a more vegetarian diet for their dog, IMHO.

Best Regards,

Labelwench

P.S. - No wonder I was craving fatty meat yesterday! Our temperature plummeted from 28F to -20 F in about 28 hours.

[labelwench]

Hello Mikal,

I am of the opinion that a food crisis developed some time ago and that we are only now becoming aware of the broader implications.

In your opinion...now that our consciousness is raised as to genetic modification of food and seed, hormone interference into cattle and chicken for instance and the quality of processed foods more in the nature of being good for "cleaning sewers"....are we looking at a food crisis developing????

There is research from decades ago questioning many of the practices and products that we take for granted today. Industry is designing ever more food-like products from increasingly fewer ingredients.

Whereby we are eating far less variety and that which we are ingesting has been selected and manipulated for shelf life and profit, not for maximum nutritional benefit.

Our changing weather patterns, whatever the cause is determined to be, are becoming a factor that we shall have to respect. Last year's rice shortage may have been the first of many concerns.

This is one occasion where I would dearly love to be proven wrong. Human caused or nature at work, the challenges will still need to be met.

Regards,

Labelwench

[Mikal]

Hi LW...maybe you and I and some others are more aware of a food crisis but there are many and they would be the majority who are just now realizing these very things....

I guess we can only help each in small ways but many small ways do eventually add up to one heck of a lot of helping....

Thanks Mikal

[Wick]

We are part of the overall ecological system. We start to destroy that system when we think of ourselves as being separate and apart from the system. The point is not to separate ourselves or our influence from the system. Instead we must make ourselves and our influence a constructive part of the system.

Death is a natural part of the system. Life taking is a natural part of ALL participants in the system. Energy and matter are constantly recycled. Upon the tree that falls today, grow the mushrooms that we will eat tomorrow. The plants around us are fed by the blood, bone and carrion of all the creatures that pass away on this planet. No matter what we are eating, we are part of the cycle of life and death. We cannot escape that fact.

Anyone who eats from an organic garden is eating nutrients that come from the blood and bones of the meat industry. Those organic eaters simply don't recognize the sacrifice of blood and bone because they are far too removed from the process. They eat the lettuce, the spinach, the chard, the tomatoes and garlic thinking that no beast died to feed them. They are wrong. If the vegetables were produced organically, they were most likely fed by by biproducts of animal slaughter. Let's not fool ourselves.

We must accept and give gratitude for the resources of the earth, and reverence the animals that make our lives possible. We cannot extract ourselves from them anymore than they can extract themselves from us. We are one organism. We are symbiotic dependents. Were it not for animal husbandry, the gathering of manure and the slaughter of animals there would be no organic gardens.

It is far more honest, in my opinion, to get as close to the processes that make our survival possible. Organic gardeners and those who eat from them should get closer to the blood and bone that feeds them. In the end we are all predators...even those of us who are called carrots and beans. We all eat from each other. The shitake mushroom on my sandwich tonight grows upon a tree that once derived its nutrients from the carrion that fell from an an owls nest. We live thanks to the dead. Let's admit that. Let's give credit where credit is due.

We cannot decrease our impact upon the earth until we accept what that impact is. We can only reverse that impact if we fully embrace our complicity. We do this by getting close to the land and by giving back what we take. Urban life makes this difficult...almost impossible.

Wick

[MJA]

Dear Wick,

Buddha thought and spoke much differently than you.
He was a true humanitarian.
Some examples from him:


The Lankavatara Sutra

On Meat Eating

Wherever there is the evolution of living beings, let people cherish the thought of kinship with them, and, thinking that all beings are [to be loved as if they were] an only child, let them refrain from eating meat. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
For the sake of love of purity…refrain from eating flesh. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
For fear of causing terror to living beings…refrain from eating flesh. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Meat which is liked by unwise people is full of bad smell and its eating gives one a bad reputation which turns wise people away.…There is generally an offensive odour to a corpse, which goes against nature… when flesh is burned, whether it be that of a dead man or of some other living creature, there is no distinction in the odour. When flesh of either kind is burned, the odour emitted is equally noxious. Therefore…who is ever desirous of purity in his discipline, wholly refrain from eating meat. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
When I teach to regard food as if it were eating the flesh of one's own child…how can I permit my disciples…to eat food consisting of flesh and blood, which is gratifying to the unwise but is abhorred by the wise, which brings many evils and keeps away many merits…and is altogether unsuitable? Thus…meat-eating I have not permitted to anyone, I do not permit, I will not permit. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
If…meat is not eaten by anybody for any reason, there will be no destroyer of life. …In the majority of cases the slaughtering of innocent living beings is done for pride and very rarely for other causes. Alas… one addicted to the love of [meat-] taste should eat human flesh! (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Meat is not agreeable to the wise: it has a nauseating odour, it causes a bad reputation, it is food for the carnivorous;…it is not to be eaten. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
To those who eat [meat] there are detrimental effects, to those who do not, merits;…meat-eaters bring detrimental effects upon themselves. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Let the Yogin refrain from eating flesh as it is born of himself, as [the eating] involves transgression, as [flesh] is produced of semen and blood, and as [the killing of animals] causes terror to living beings. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Let the Yogin always refrain from meat. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
From eating [meat] arrogance is born, from arrogance erroneous imaginations issue, and from imagination is born greed; and for this reason refrain from eating [meat]. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
For profit sentient beings are destroyed, for flesh money is paid out, they are both evil-doers. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
One who eats flesh, trespassing against the words of the Muni, is evil-minded; he is pointed out in the teachings of the Sakya as the destroyer of the welfare of the two worlds. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Those evil-doers go to the most horrifying hell; meat-eaters are matured in the terrific hells such as Raurava, etc. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
[The meat-eater] is ill-smelling, contemptuous, and born deprived of intelligence. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Meat-eating is rejected by me in such sutras as the Hastikakshya, the Mahãmegha, the Nirvãna, the Aṅglimãlika, and the Lãnkãvatãra. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
[Meat-eating] is condemned by the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and Śrāvakas; if one devours [meat] out of shamelessness he will always be devoid of sense. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
As greed is the hindrance to emancipation, so are meat-eating, liquor, etc., hindrances. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
There may be in time to come people who make foolish remarks about meat-eating, saying, "Meat is proper to eat, unobjectionable, and permitted by the Buddha." (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
[Meat-eating] is forbidden by me everywhere and all the time for those who are abiding in compassion. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")
Therefore, do not eat meat which will cause terror among people, because it hinders the truth of emancipation; [not to eat meat—] this is the mark of the wise. (Buddha, The Lankavatara Sutra, "On Meat Eating")

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MJA