Vegetarianism is a Higher level View

[labelwench]

Last month, there were three vehicle wrecks in one night caused by Bison sleeping in the middle of the highway during a blizzard.

One was a tractor trailer hauling groceries for the large supermarkets, the other two were passenger vehicles. Several people hospitalized. Insurance adjusters much occupied. This is not an uncommon occurrence.

Male bison grow to as much as to 11.5 feet (3.5m) long, and 6.5 feet (2m) tall at the shoulder and can weigh up to 2200lbs (998 kg).

Description
The American and European bison are the largest terrestrial mammals in North America and Europe. Bison are nomadic grazers and travel in herds, except for the non-dominant bulls, which travel alone or in small groups during most of the year. American bison are known for living in the Great Plains. Both species were hunted close to extinction during the 19th and 20th centuries but have since rebounded, although the European bison is still endangered.

Unlike the Asian water buffalo, bison have never been domesticated, although the American bison is kept on some farms.

Bison are born without their trademark hump and horns and live for approximately twenty years. They grow to maturity at two to three years, although males continue to grow until about their seventh year. Adult bulls express a high degree of dominance competitiveness during mating season. Male bison fight for females and these fights often result in injury or death. After the bison mate, the herd splits up into smaller herds. Calves are born nine months after mating. The mothers take care of and nurse their young for a year.

For those travelling the Alaska Highway, you should avoid travel at night and do not honk your horn at Bison. They will charge.

Regards,

Labelwench

[Wick]

Remember the garden? ... we got thrown out because we fell from grace ..down to base level,
Now we are no different to animal.

The garden was a metaphor for the higher spiritual nature unique to man...Higher CONSCIENCE

Then why did God command mankind from the Garden to make sacrifice of lambs, bullocks, turtle doves and such. I don't doubt this universe is a fallen (or falling) universe--that's the basis of my poor little TOE--but if you are going to stand upon the metaphor of the Garden, you must also accept that the highest CONSIOUSNESS commanded Adam to make sacrifice. WHY??

There are worse things than living and dying for a purpose. Nor do we need to assume that death is the end of existence. Perhaps the One issuing the command from the garden understood that its not such a bad thing to be called home after a purpose well fulfilled.

Wick

[analog]

MJA,

I admire you having the courage to live by your beliefs, giving up so much, (I couldn't do it) but I see that you still have your computer (or someone's) to post with, so you must be still supporting modern society just a bit.

Being as it's been acknowledged that certain changes can't support our current numbers, I'm just curious, what would be a good world population number for you and Mel, as this seems to be an important underlying concept to both of your ideals?

I don't think I see science, technology, and social advances as giving everyone a free pass to overpopulate the world (as I feel is being suggested) as I would more admire the efforts of the individuals of our society who have worked so hard to keep science, technology and industry advancing enough to keep up with the needs of a society made up of individuals who only want the best for themselves and their families, and feel relaxed enough to bring children into this world, which even I still haven't come to terms with for my own reasons.

Though I admit the world is still filled with problems, I'm glad we don't have to worry about many of the things our ancestors used to. Short of passing out birth permits, I don't know how you would change such things, but I definitely am proud that we've advanced to the point that our population numbers aren't controlled by such things as they used to be, and if bambi, bugs, daffy, donald or any other animal has to provide for such luxuries then I guess I'm OK with that.

Who's to say, Earth might be the original birth place for life in the universe (which is possibly why we can't find life on other planets), whereby our obvious efficiencies of population may allow us to populate other planets and ultimately other parts of the universe....even though that's probably not the case, we honestly don't know the true objective here, or at least I don't.

later,

Tim

[melanie]

Then why did God command mankind from the Garden to make sacrifice of lambs, bullocks, turtle doves and such. I don't doubt this universe is a fallen (or falling) universe--that's the basis of my poor little TOE--but if you are going to stand upon the metaphor of the Garden, you must also accept that the highest CONSIOUSNESS commanded Adam to make sacrifice. WHY??

There are worse things than living and dying for a purpose. Nor do we need to assume that death is the end of existence. Perhaps the One issuing the command from the garden understood that its not such a bad thing to be called home after a purpose well fulfilled.

Wick

Yes Wick, I agree with your last sentence.
The ONE issuing the command is the same ONE fulfilling the command and the same ONE who understood the purpose.
So any sacrifice is out, it's another illusion.
Change comes only from within.

There is only Conscious /Awareness / Oneness ...
The Watcher...The Self....All else is illusion...The play of life.
Life watching IT-Self ...ONENESS at play....there is no other than ONE.

Male and female are really ONE
The male is equally female and the female is equally male.

There is a thing inherent and natural,
Which existed before heaven and earth.
Motionless and fathomless,
It stands alone and never changes,
It pervades everywhere and never becomes exhausted.
It may be regarded as the mother of the universe.
The cosmic womb.

Adam is male and female united as one.
Adam is the androgyne.
The birth of Eve is the fall of god and the illusory separation.
The parting of the primeval androgen in two beings, the male being separated from the female is the illusion.
Only through Her can Unity be attained.
Eat the Apple
The Fruit of Knowledge
Be transformed beyond
Good and evil
The Serpent is a symbol of God.. Wisdom
The Serpent is Eve.. God
The Serpent is the Eternal Feminine.. Cosmic womb
The Serpent is Kundalini
The Serpent is Woman

Let each us burrow for the root of evil that is within and root it up from his or her heart.
It will be rooted up when it is recognized.
Lack of acquaintance is the mother of all evils.
Lack of acquaintance will lead to death.
Whoever is really free because of knowledge is a servant because of love of those who have not yet been able to attain the freedom of knowledge.
Make firm the foot of those who have stumbled, and stretch out your hand to those who are ill. Feed those who are hungry, and give rest to those who are weary.
Raise up those who wish to rise and awaken those who sleep.
If you live according to your human nature, you are going to die.. but if by the Spirit you put to death your sinful actions, you will live.
Egodeath is as if the dreamer awakens in the dream.
I used to function in death, then I died.
Now life alone is.
The true nature of ignorance is knowledge.

Each perceiving individual selfhood is like a holograph of the universal Self - the Cosmic AM - the Source of All.
Thus it was said in Genesis, and in the Gnostic creation myths, that the human being is an "image" of God.
Like the universal Self, it perceives what is around it and experiences that to which it is exposed.
The individual self is like a leaf on the tree of universal Self. The leaf contains the same essence (DNA)
as the tree and so is part and parcel of it but in another sense is an individual thing unto itself like a drop in an infinite ocean of Bliss.

It is within unity that each one will attain himself,
within knowledge he will purify himself from multiplicity into unity,
consuming matter within himself like a fire and darkness by light, death by life.

Light and darkness, life and death, right and left are mutually dependent, it is impossible for them to separate.
Accordingly the 'good' are not good, the 'bad' are not bad, 'life' is not life, 'death' is not death.
The deficiency came into being because the Father was not known, from the moment the Father is known the deficiency will not exist.
As with a person's ignorance, when one receives knowledge, ignorance of the other passes away of its own accord,
as the darkness vanishes when the light appears, so also the deficiency vanishes in the completion,
so from that moment on the realm of appearance is no longer manifest but rather will pass away in the harmony of unity.

When the bliss of Consciousness is attained, there is the lasting acquisition of that state in which Consciousness is one's only Self,
and in which all that appears is identical with Consciousness. Even the body is experienced as identical with Consciousness.

Awareness of the perceiver and the perceived is common to all beings.
But with Self-realized yogis it is different, they are aware of them as one.

Thankyou for reading.

melanie....

Who is always at one with all that is...eternally free and very happy.
Sometimes I like to have a good moan about stuff sometime I just let it be.

[melanie]

Mel

I admire you having the courage to live by your beliefs, giving up so much, (I couldn't do it) but I see that you still have your computer (or someone's) to post with, so you must be still supporting modern society just a bit.

Being as it's been acknowledged that certain changes can't support our current numbers, I'm just curious, what would be a good world population number for you and Mel, as this seems to be an important underlying concept to both of your ideals?

Consumer demand creates reality.
We are our thoughts, and with our thoughts we create our world.
What ever a man sow he shall reap.
We have it all, what ever we demand or desire, we will have.
Nothing wrong with any of it.
Everything is a gift.
Computers are a gift.

However, Nothing belongs to 'you'
It's all on loan moment to moment.

Everything is perfectly designed including the imperfections
It's all here nowhere.
One who awakens the consciousness and can see beyond the illusions...is a very rich person..IMHO

A man who has nothing can be defined as having everything.
And a man who has everything can be defined has having nothing.
So lets not get lost in meaningless concepts such as modern / ancient....( My perception is my Reality )

So no ideals, ideals is the work of the ego,expectation,what's in it for me, conditions, etc etc,.......
In reality there is just plain and simple RAWness in all it's nakedness...Pure Reality.
Already perfect AS IT IS ....arising to no-one.
Nice of you to admire my courage.
But it does take courage to live the dream.
And that's what we are doing here in the first place.
No-one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth IT

While Awareness looks on in detachment.

tat tvam asi = THAT
The subtle Being composing everything
THAT is YOU

Is that too subtle for you.
There is no SACRIFICE.


"There is no evil and there are no evil forces in the world. There are only people of awareness, and there are people who are fast asleep and sleep has no force.
The whole energy is in the hands of the awakened people. And one awakened person can awaken the whole world.
One lighted candle can make millions of candles lighted without losing it's light."

[racecar]

Had a reply and lost it, probably just as well.

For me a higher level view would be one that includes meat-eaters and vegetarians. Not to do so would be to make one lesser than the other, a winner and a loser, not very equal.

Two summers ago we lived in the country very close to the river. We were the minority in the wilderness. Deer, porcupine and turkey were comfortable in our company. We planted a garden including tomatoes and sunflowers. There were two crab apple trees in the yard. Every evening the mamma deer would bring the babies to the tree to eat the crab apples. Have you had the pleasure of hearing deer talking? One morning we awoke to find the garden had been eaten. The kids were upset because they had worked hard to plant the garden and wanted to watch it grow and eat from it. Fortunately we were not too serious about the garden as to become angry. We are fortunate enough to have the store, the Amish and the local farmers' market to gather new supplies.

I figure just by my aliveness I hurt someone or something. If I pick berries it's competition for wildlife. If I buy berries it's poor working conditons and money hungry mongers. It seems to me we all win and we all lose.

[melanie]

I believe that there is nothing wrong or right about anything.

Sometimes we just do the wrong or the right thing without having any conscious awareness of the consequences.
That's how life evolves.
Either it's right or it's wrong.
Survival of the fittest seems to be what evolution is all about.

There are no winners or losers there is just life in all it's Glory gory.
Perception is your reality.

I wouldn't intentionally kill another creature just to eat it.
If the creature attacked me then i might have to defend myself.
That is the natural rule law of the jungle.
I would have to make a choice.
Choices are not easy to make sometimes.

We simply makes our choices and we pays the prices.
Natural mother nature is always in balance at all times.
And she can take the load. After all she's a big girl.
If however, balance does become uneven, she will compensate one way or the other to restore balance.
Cause and Effect.
Equilibrium always sitting very comfortably between the two completely unperturbed by all the commotion.

The universe is a self correcting phenomena, that is plain to see ,she is finely tuned no doubt about that.
Left to it's own devises it flows along quite nicely.

Consciousness knows what it is doing. It has a conscience.
Consciousness is imbued within all sentient and non-sentient life.
Consciousness is expanding through it's forms.
Mankind so it appears has the capacity to be more conscious.

My belief is that conscious life was meant to transcend itself.
So the self could realize that all it sees with it's eyes is in fact it's own self.
This is when the self awakens in it's own self, it sees itself as one living eternal entity.

So what ever happens,whether it is bad or good, it knows it can start again afresh from the very beginning.
So it doesn't matter if form makes a big mess of it.
It's only her doing it anyway.
And we little minute forms imitate natures creations when we attempt to design or invent anything,
if some project isn't working we can always go back to the drawing board until we get it right.

Anything manmade however, can never completely match with natures creations.
It's only an imitation,
If we get a bit too big for our tiny little boots and tip the balance of mother nature.
We most certainly will pay the price. She will let you know.
She won't even say wait until your Father gets home.
Because he isn't there.....there's NOBODY HOME.

Moral of the story.....don't [bleep] with mother nature.
She is love.....She is unconditional.. it's all mamma's story.
Let's make it a story we'll never forget.

And remember children choices have consequences, can't have light without dark.

Life is heaven or hell or both.
It's happening and nothing can stop it.
Ever.

[labelwench]

Good posting, all,

There is much to be learned from the First Nations elders of Northern B.C. and the Yukon, the remaining few who still know and teach the old ways.

When you hunt or fish, there is a short ceremony for the taking of each species, and how each part is to be used. With some species, such as the grizzly bear, there are very important aspects to observe.

When a hunting regulation was proposed to leave the sex organs of a bear attached to the hide while in transport, the Fish and Wildlife Management Board of the day met gridlock. We debated for many hours, until the following day, an Elder was brought in and offered to teach the Conservation Officers how to identify a female bear from a male bear by other means.

He took the time to educate a room full of people that the proposed change was in violation of their beliefs and that his people could not desecrate the body of a bear in this manner.

At the same time, he identified the underlying concern and offered a workable solution, which carried the day.

Similarly with sport fishing regulations. "What is it that you need to learn from the fish that offers it's life to you, that you would make sport of it, and treat it in this manner?" As we know, not all fish that are caught and released cope well with the experience.

And when you harvest natures plant bounty, enjoy her gifts but always leave enough for herself and the rest of our wild kin.

As always,

Labelwench

[Wick]

Yes, Labelwench.

Moderation in all things. Virtue doesn't come from respecting life above all else. We must respect death as well. There is a time for everything under the sun. We reverence the living and the dead. We reverence the food we eat, the air we breathe, the water we drink. We reverence the rising of the sun and its setting.

There must be opposition in all things. With light comes darkness. With joy comes pain. With life comes death. Were it not so, nothing would have any meaning. So when we pluck the chicken and prepare it for a meal we think of the chicken's life, of the eggs it provided, of its lovely feathers, of the way it walked, of the mechanical way it would turn its head to look at us with one amber eye, of the rubbery motion of its crimson comb as its head cocked, of the relishing way it would peck up coarsely ground corn. And we thank the chicken, for giving its life that our life can continue.

So to, when we pull up a carrot from the garden, we remember the seed we planted the weeds we pulled away to ensure the carrot had plenty of nutrients and sunshine, the look of the dew on the leaves, the ladybugs that came to rest on the cloud of carrot leaves, the brilliant orange of the swelling root, the sweet smell that drifted to our noses as the root was pulled. And we thank the carrot for giving its life so that our life can continue.

The real sorrow arises when people get too far away from their food. When food becomes a thing that merely comes from the supermarket or from a can. Or when an insistance for organic food becomes an obsession for the rich who have no understanding of what it means to scratch bloodmeal and manure into the surface of the garden soil, whose hands have no memory of the richness of soil.

If food becomes merely something one earns, and looses its place as something for which one gives thanks, then the first lesson of the earth is lost. That lesson is that with everything comes a sacrifice.

The chicken. The carrot.

I remember thinking this was especially true when I watched my wife nursing our youngest child. Warm tear welled up in my eyes as I recalled that she had spent nearly seven years giving the milk of her body to the seven wonderful children we have reared together. She had sacrificed her life for them. She continues to sacrifice for them to this day. And so do I. Sacrifice is the first lesson of the earth.

With sacrifice comes the loss of something...a death. But the thing lost and the energy of the thing lost carries on. It sustains the universe. And when, after I have given my life in the service of my children and that portion of creation I have had the good fortune of dying for, I will be eaten by the earth. And that's alright.

My light will persist. I will come to understand the universe and the Providence that brought the universe into being in ways I never imagined. I won't need to look for the TOE anymore.

Wick

[Bruce Ralph]

I could probably go vegetarian. The thing is though, that I enjoy eating meat because it adds variety to your diet and I don't feel like changing that. I think the long tradition of humans is that we are omnivores and this has contributed to our success as a species. The problem is that like all human systems that the production of meat has become a high input-high output industrial system. We have to continue to improve practices that are humane and respectful to the animals.