Vegetarianism is a Higher level View

[MJA]

I could probably go vegetarian. The thing is though, that I enjoy eating meat because it adds variety to your diet and I don't feel like changing that. I think the long tradition of humans is that we are omnivores and this has contributed to our success as a species. The problem is that like all human systems that the production of meat has become a high input-high output industrial system. We have to continue to improve practices that are humane and respectful to the animals.

Hi bruce,

I use to smoke cigarretes because they were a habit forming addiction, and were also calming for me. I always relaxed when I stepped away from whatever I was doing for a smoke or two. And relaxation like your 'variety' I found equally good for me. But now I now that cigarretes go far beyond a calming nature, they're deadly.

Eating other animals is simply that way too.

=
MJA

[roundhousekick]

hello MJA,

I don't like the idea of killing animals and eat them either. However, I do have a different view. Everything happened in life is the best thing that could happens. I don't mind eat meat, but if I have to kill an animal to have meat, I'll go with vegetable even though it'll be harder. To me, nothing is absolute, I just have to be aware of what I'm doing and do the best of my ability. If in case it is wrong, it might as well be a good lesson God given.

[MJA]

hello MJA,

I don't like the idea of killing animals and eat them either. However, I do have a different view. Everything happened in life is the best thing that could happens. I don't mind eat meat, but if I have to kill an animal to have meat, I'll go with vegetable even though it'll be harder. To me, nothing is absolute, I just have to be aware of what I'm doing and do the best of my ability. If in case it is wrong, it might as well be a good lesson God given.

Hi RHK, and welcome to TOE.

I don't eat meat because equal is absolute to me.
Try some equality in your diet, and you will humanely be too.

Absolute
=
MJA

[labelwench]

Hello all,

RHK raises an interesting point. There are many people who express ambivalence about the meat in their diet because they take no part in the husbandry, slaughter, butchering and distribution of the flesh of a living creature.

The same applies to fish and fowl, although many people seem to attach a caste-like system to animals, the furry, cuddly ones tending to garner a more sympathetic audience.

Perhaps if we all were required to participate in the production of the foods we each personally choose to eat, the debate would sort itself out rather quickly.

Meat-eaters would have to be involved from conception to carving knife at the dinner table. Vegetarians would use compost and natural fertilizer to prepare the soil, seed, water, weed, harvest etc. to the same end.

Such an experiment could feasibly swell the ranks of vegetarians. If you can't bring yourself to respectfully give and take a life in exchange for it's sustenance, you should,in all fairness, select an alternative. Tending the land at the whim of the elements is seriously hard work. Come to think of it, Working in the distribution and shops are no walk in the park, either. "Staying alive".....

We would all have a greater appreciation of the effort made by others to secure the food supply on our behalf. Our personal choices would be knowledge and experience based.

In closing, it would be a wonderful world if there was only enough food of choice for all; that no one should suffer discomfort or perish from hunger on a planet of such bounty and potential.

As always,

Labelwench

[Graybeard]

When you hunt or fish, there is a short ceremony for the taking of each species, and how each part is to be used.

With some species, such as the grizzly bear, there are very important aspects to observe.

I once had a friend who, reluctantly, and with some trepidation, went on a bear hunt. When he returned we asked him if the hunt had been successful. He replied, "Yes, very successful"

"How many bears did you catch ?"

'None !"

"None ?"

"Yes, when your hunting bears, none is more than enough"

cool bananas ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

I was out hunting bear with someone once, but I was kind of asleep at the switch when a grizzly came out of nowhere and charged at us, for my rifle was put away and the safety was on.

I began changing from my boots into my tennis shoes, my partner saying “What the heck are you doing that for? You can’t outrun a bear!”

“Well, I only have to outrun you, not the bear!”

However, after the bear ate my friend, he was still very hungry and came after me. Well, stupid me still wasn’t ready and as I tried to get my rifle out I tripped over a log and soon the bear was upon me. I tickled his stomach and what I later realized were his gonzolas. The bear became so happy that it totally relaxed and I was able to walk away unharmed.

I looked back and saw that the bear was waving, saying “Come back, come back…”

[austintorn@aol.com]

After another, more successful bear hunt, my companions and I divided up the spoils and I went home and put a bag of bear meat in the freezer.

About a week later, I thought that I might cook some of it up, but when I looked in the freezer it was gone.

I called out to my Grandmother in the next room, “Did you see the meat that I had in the freezer?”

She replied, “Oh, my card-playing ladies and I ate it about a week ago.”

“Oh, that’s OK, I was just wondering what had happened to it. How was it?”

“Oh, it was so delicious; everyone loved it so much that we finished it.”

“Do you know what that was?”

“Not really—some different kind of tasty steak?”

“It was bear meat.”

There was no reply. A few minutes my grandmother came into the kitchen looking rather pale and clutching her stomach, saying “I have a really bad stomach ache from that bear meat.”

“That was over a week ago. When did this stomach ache begin.”

“Oh, just a minute or so ago. I really feel bad; have any Pepto Bismo?”

[Vincent Wee-Foo]

Hi Mikey ....

If Homo-Sapiens started out as Omnivores 200,000 years ago and we inherited this from our earlier hominid ancestors ... then at what point (in your opinion) did it become inhumane to eat meat ?

What I am saying is that we evolved to eat meat as well as fruit and nuts. In fact the paleo diet of the early american peoples is now found to be possibly the one we should all be on. This recommends lean meat around once a week. Some fat is OK, but not often. The diet is around 14,000 years old (and most probably much, much older than that) and its taken us that long to realise what we forgot, that this is a balanced diet ...

This diet has yet to be officially approved. But in relation to this post there is no argument that this was the diet of stone age peoples .... how can it now be inhumane to live on this diet which is responsible for supporting our ancestors and thereby producing us ? And if it is inhumane, at what point did it become so ?

cool bananas ... greg

Hi Greg,

Good question with indepth probes.

IMHO:

At the point of realization.

An intellectual point of having crossed over from not realizing the acts of inhumane that paradoxically perceive such acts as norm for daily necessity for survival in a shut-off state of not realizing the essence of being humane, and therefore not aware at all on the acts of being inhumane.

Two very interesting and prominent presidents of U.S.A had arrived at this point of realization. Abraham Lincoln and Barrack Obama.

Barack Obama: "I Am Now a Vegan".


Best regards,

[Mikal]

http://www.themeatrix1.com/



Mikal

[Graybeard]

At the point of realization.

An intellectual point of having crossed over from not realizing the acts of inhumane that paradoxically perceive such acts as norm for daily necessity for survival in a shut-off state of not realizing the essence of being humane, and therefore not aware at all on the acts of being inhumane.

Thanks for replying Vincent.

Good reply and I understand exactly your point.

In reply to yours, I am no longer convinced that 'realisation' is separate from natural selection, but rather, is just another adaptation.

The only life species that can confirm that Homo Sapiens has a special gift of 'realisation, is Homo Sapiens.

Further, in order to reach our current sapient state it was necessary to eat meat. Some sages say that the end can never justify the means, because the end is the outcome of the means employed. In a simpler format ... 'Doing bad never leads to good'

To me, this thinking eventually leads to some form of intelligent design and is contrary to natural selection

The end is always unknown and the means are ends in themselves. We are here discussing today because all our ancestors found a form of hi-protein diet, responsible for our large brains (relatively speaking) in marrow and meat.

These were the ends employed. These were the 'means' employed that enabled 'realisation'. To 'realise' now, that our ancestors were in error is illogical. If it was 'good' to do 'bad' to reach a final outcome of 'good' is to forecast and justify ourselves as the 'end' product. This is a self-centric view (the universe wheels on its course just for us)

Once again the only life species that can confirm that Homo Sapiens has a special gift of 'realisation, is Homo Sapiens. I liken this to organising a race, where we are the only competitor entered, we donate the trophy, and award it to ourselves, because we are the only winner. This is a subjective view and always leads to some form of intelligent design.

Two very interesting and prominent presidents of U.S.A had arrived at this point of realization. Abraham Lincoln and Barrack Obama.

Barack Obama has yet to prove himself, but I admire him so far. In my view an equal, if not more interesting president of the US was Thomas Jefferson, he said 'Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.'

To not eat meat because you don't like it is reasonable. To not eat meat because it is 'inhumane' (not-human) is to set yourself apart from all other species, and in effect is simply to establish a ritual or obeisance. All species, flora and fauna, (bar the phyto-plankton who get their energy from the sun) dine on each other

In India, many areas, are vegetarian, and this food is wonderful. These areas are vegetarian on the face of it for ritualistic reasons, but I believe it came about thru natural selection working in a climate of heat and hi-humidity and food preservation without contamination

look forward to your reply.

cool bananas ... greg