Vegetarianism is a Higher level View

[MJA]

I'm a vegetarian because it is the most humane thing I can do.

And so are a few of my closest friends:

Vegetarian Quotes

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime."
Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth -- beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals -- would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"
George Bernard Shaw, playwright, Nobel Prize 1925

"What is it that should trace the insuperable line? ...The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"
Jeremy Bentham, philosopher

"In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought."
Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

"Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President

"You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, essayist

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields."
"What I think about vivisection is that if people admit that they have the right to take or endanger the life of living beings for the benefit of many, there will be no limit to their cruelty."
Leo Tolstoy author

"I cannot fish without falling a little in self-respect...always when I have done I feel it would have been better if I had not fished."
Henry David Thoreau, author

"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?"
"Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research."
George Bernard Shaw

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being."
Mahatma Gandhi, statesman and philosopher

"I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't...The pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
Mark Twain, author

"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Edison, inventor

Please add a vegetarian thought of your own!
Thanks,

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MJA

[melanie]

Every living sentient creature is a sacred reflection /expression of oneness / or god.

We are responsible.
Free Will is a gift ...(Grace)

When there is suffering it is god alone that suffers.
When there is joy it is god alone that feels joy.
We and every sentient creature are fallen from grace.
Awareness is the key.

___________________________________



Question: Dear Awakened One(s),

This question has come up for 'me'. In the awakened state where all is seen as one self playing with itself, as it is, due to ignorance (which is fine) atrocities and cruelty is practiced by humanity (which is also fine); this is not an enquiry about judgments, about should be verses what is; the question that arise is how does the awakened one choose when stumbles upon the choice of participating in atrocities and cruelty with the full knowledge of actually 'doing' it to the one self. Particularly the question says, is the awakened one capable of choosing to harm 'others' deliberately in a premeditated way? By 'others', it includes animals that are farmed in most uncompassionate ways for the satisfaction of humanity's taste buds.




Answer: Oneness appears as everything.
There is endless variation, but no difference. As such there really aren't any awakened people.
If we would, for the sake of this question, assume that there are such people then they are those in whom the One plays the game of recognizing -or admitting- that there is only One; and that each and every one is an appearance of him/her Self.

From this 'perspective-less perspective' it is all seen as Oneness appearing as every character,
as every grain of sand, and as every deed or choice; regardless of whether the idea of an individual choice maker is there or not.

Next to these typing fingers sits a glass of water.
Every now and then the hand reaches out and a sip is taken. The choice to do so simply occurs without there being a 'me' that is first creating the choice.
This is seen to be so for all apparent characters whether or not there is a belief in an individual that makes the choice.

Within the play there seem to be compassionate characters, less compassionate characters and cruel characters.
There are deeds and there are consequences, but an independent and separate doer cannot be found.
This is stated simply and clearly in the well known Zen verse "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment chop wood and carry water."

In this verse we can sense the appreciation for the simplicity of what is,
as well as the surprise that everything continues as it always did;
even when it is clear that there is no one to be enlightened or to do the continuing.

A variation on the above verse comes to mind;
"Before enlightenment, there is action and there are choices. After enlightenment, there is action and there are choices."

How choices are made and action is taken is 'known' in the same way that it is known how to move the hand and how to type these words.
I have no idea how 'I' do it, yet it is no problem to take another sip of water.
Like breathing, it simply happens.

~

[melanie]

Only if there is a willingness to live in the zero point (wide awakeness) can there be change .... to die to the ego of separateness.
Non-Desire for un-natural pleasures must be the ultimate sacrifice.


“A nation that is capable of limitless sacrifice is capable of rising to limitless heights. The purer the sacrifice the quicker the progress.”
Mahatma Gandhi

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I think I could turn and live with animals.
They are so placid and self-contained.
I stand and look at them long and long.
They do not sweat and whine about their condition.
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins.
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God.
Not one is dissatisfied; not one is demented with the mania of owning things.
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of years ago.
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.

~Walt Whitman

_______________________

“It has been said that what one can receive from another is a thought, a question, but the exploration has to be one’s own.
Unless your reasoning ability and conscious thought discover the truth, it is not the truth for you; it is only a description of the truth.

Non-duality the 1 question to all our answers.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Glad to hear about having free will, Mel. This is better than being followers of the dream dreamt as hapless dream characters.

Perhaps we will recognize some animals as having a personhood status.

[melanie]

Glad to hear about having free will, Mel. This is better than being followers of the dream dreamt as hapless dream characters.

Perhaps we will recognize some animals as having a personhood status.

There are no hapless followers of the dream dreamt.
(that is sheer ego fantasy)
'We' are the dreamed characters, and the dreamed cannot dream.
Within the ''dream of separation''...there appears to be a sense of free will.

In reality there is just THIS .. perfectly arising unconditioned unchanging non-distinctive no-concept in mind IS-ness arising to no-one.
Choices appear to arise in THIS....via stimuli/senses re-acting re-action as sensation is sensed.
Not to confuse motion with action.
There are deeds and there are consequences, but an independent and separate doer cannot be found.
Doing is done no-doer thereof.
And the grass grows all by itself.

Ordinary Functional Senses are (Automatic)
You (will) know what to do.
You (will) know whether you are genuine or a fraud.

[melanie]

This is better than being followers of the dream dreamt as hapless dream characters.

In your nightly dream you are being attacked by a tiger
the tiger is just about to devour you....at that moment you '' WAKE UP ''
Understand?

You want BLOOD you got it.
Nature ..SHE ..BLEEDS for you.

Point of no return.....freedom at zero point.
NOTHING belongs to you.

little child
who knows your thoughts

so much perceived pain
so much fear and confusion

beings of light
if somehow you can break through

this shadowland
please open my heart

[melanie]

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......wishing on a falling star ?

[Graybeard]

I'm a vegetarian because it is the most humane thing I can do.

Hi Mikey ....

If Homo-Sapiens started out as Omnivores 200,000 years ago and we inherited this from our earlier hominid ancestors ... then at what point (in your opinion) did it become inhumane to eat meat ?

What I am saying is that we evolved to eat meat as well as fruit and nuts. In fact the paleo diet of the early american peoples is now found to be possibly the one we should all be on. This recommends lean meat around once a week. Some fat is OK, but not often. The diet is around 14,000 years old (and most probably much, much older than that) and its taken us that long to realise what we forgot, that this is a balanced diet ...

This diet has yet to be officially approved. But in relation to this post there is no argument that this was the diet of stone age peoples .... how can it now be inhumane to live on this diet which is responsible for supporting our ancestors and thereby producing us ? And if it is inhumane, at what point did it become so ?

cool bananas ... greg

[analog]

There's also the fact that we too play a role in many ecosystems, whereby the effects of all humans becoming herbivores would probably be devastating to many other aspects which we know little about.

Our carnivorous tendencies have also taken the lead as top predator in many rural areas, whereby the recreational hunting and fishing done by many keeps local wildlife numbers in balance. Some of these creatures have few natural predators and their efficient breeding habits could easily overpopulate them to the point of effecting other aspects of our lives in negative ways; such as areas where strict hunting laws and regulations hinder the hunting of deer and such to the point that their numbers rapidly increase unchecked, and they become the number one killer of people's families on the highway due to their nature of grazing in ditches and stepping out in front of oncoming cars. If this aspect wasn't addressed we may find ourselves killing just to be killing for such reasons as safety concerns, property damage and to keep them out of our gardens due to their insufficient food sources relative to their numbers; rather than the more humane idea of killing for food, because we simply can't introduce keystone predators in our backyards without soon finding ourselves on the menu.

An Omnivorous Quote

"Nature, at all scales and resolutions, is a fragile balance of many things, some of which we still don't fully understand or realize sometimes. Everything is intertwined to the point that certain changes resonate throughout the whole in often drastic ways. Some can't deal with the seemingly 'ugly' side of existence, but I think it only makes things that much more beautiful."
analog, no one special

[MJA]

Hi Mikey ....

If Homo-Sapiens started out as Omnivores 200,000 years ago and we inherited this from our earlier hominid ancestors ... then at what point (in your opinion) did it become inhumane to eat meat ?

What I am saying is that we evolved to eat meat as well as fruit and nuts. In fact the paleo diet of the early american peoples is now found to be possibly the one we should all be on. This recommends lean meat around once a week. Some fat is OK, but not often. The diet is around 14,000 years old (and most probably much, much older than that) and its taken us that long to realise what we forgot, that this is a balanced diet ...

This diet has yet to be officially approved. But in relation to this post there is no argument that this was the diet of stone age peoples .... how can it now be inhumane to live on this diet which is responsible for supporting our ancestors and thereby producing us ? And if it is inhumane, at what point did it become so ?

cool bananas ... greg

At what point Greybeard,

At the point of choice, the point of balance, equality, good, right, at the point of freedom not of only mankind, but of all things, the point of self-evidence, the point is truth.

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MJA