An Idea in Awareness.

[melanie]

What do you know of the universe that is not an idea?

[Graybeard]

Neptune was the first planet found by mathematical prediction.

Mercury is the innermost and smallest planet in the Solar System

The Moon was once part of Earth

Helium was discovered on the Sun before it was discovered on Earth

Ned Kelly pies taste awesome

... just a few ... for you ... Mel

cool bananas ... greg

[melanie]

Hi Greg, it's good to be chatting to you again. I hope you stay here.

Thank-you for your example ideas Greg.

Yet the data you have provided are just ideas arising now in your memory.

They're not real are they?

Where was the thought - '' The Moon was once part of Earth ''
before it appeared in you? isn't it just a mental construct ?

and what is a 'mental construct' other than an idea arising from no thing to no one ?

[Graybeard]

But in order to know that the moon was once part of Earth they had to travel to the moon, get some rock ...... and with no 'idea' prior to the analysis .... they accidently discovered it was the same make up as Earth ??

And as for Ned Kelly pies, once you taste them ... you just know they're a good idea ... lolol

And Mel your a sweetpea ...

cool bananas ... greg

[melanie]

But in order to know that the moon was once part of Earth they had to travel to the moon, get some rock ......
and with no 'idea' prior to the analysis .... they accidently discovered it was the same make up as Earth ??

Yes, but the knower of the moon story is just the dreamer, and who is the dreamer but the dream itself.

[Meem]

Everything is of stars, and star dust ... well except for ... perhaps ... "dark-energy."

[melanie]

Everything is of stars, and star dust ... well expect for ... perhaps ... "dark-energy."

What was ''dark-energy'' before it was labeled?


Nothing exists which appears as everything.

There is no such thing as nothing or thing.

[SteveA]

And as for Ned Kelly pies, once you taste them ... you just know they're a good idea ... lolol

I think Graybeard has a pretty tough statement here to challenge.

Doesn't a nice hot shower after being out in the cold feel good? Now if there's something close to an objective, non-debatable fact around, that's got to be close to the top of the list (ok, maybe gravity comes a little above that, but as science has even shown, the existence of Pluto as a planet can even be debated. Few people are going to debate how great a good shower is when you really need one, or how ice cream melting all over the place isn't a pleasure to clean up )

So, I think we've shown that showers and Ned Kelly pies are facts beyond mental construction ... all the mental constructions came later trying to figure out why they're so good and figure out how to get more!

[SteveA]

Similarly, what came first, a plethora of mathematical equations and mathematicians or the beauty of a simple form they experienced and the desire to express it and communicate about it?

Yes, it was beauty, ice cream, and showers that came first (ok, maybe gravity is in that mix too ), but after that the existence of Pluto is way way way down on the list of facts upon which science is built

Sure, we can try to reverse the cause and effect and maybe that's half the fun too, but I don't think we'd even be here without the rest. Is it atoms that make home, families, friends, and chats about the wonders of nature and all the rest or did we derive atoms and Pluto in order to keep the rest of the story going?

[melanie]

Similarly, what came first, a plethora of mathematical equations and mathematicians or the beauty of a simple form they experienced and the desire to express it and communicate about it?

'Mathematical Equations' .......can you smell, see, taste, feel, touch, NUMBER ?