Entanglement

[Graybeard]

Quote from Sherlock Holmes "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, is the truth" .... or thereabouts

Using this process on the Quantum Entanglement problem really leaves only one solution.. no matter how improbable

Its as though the two particles are separated by no space, (and therefore not breaking any laws of relativity or receiving messages faster than the speed of light) whereas, we, governed by the maximum speed limit of the universe, see them as widely separate.

Could this be possible?

or is it simply that their two probablities waves are both stretched across the entire universe and when one collapses with 100% certainity, the other one must also collapse at the same instant.

But even then, wouldn't this be considered to break the maximum speed limit.

The only answer that suits everything is that they are not separated at all. But they appear to be separate to us ????

How can this be??

[SinJin]

or is it simply that their two probablities waves are both stretched across the entire universe and when one collapses with 100% certainity, the other one must also collapse at the same instant.

But even then, wouldn't this be considered to break the maximum speed limit.

The only answer that suits everything is that they are not separated at all. But they appear to be separate to us ????

But if we're going to break the theory of locality and assume that they are not seperated but only appear to be to us, something we've never encountered before in our normal universe, then why can't we break the maximum speed limit rule while we're at it? I mean why be willing to accept one and not the other, since the laws of physics and our own observations seem to rule out both. Unless the math behind it proves that one is more likely than the other...

[Graybeard]

Hmmmm .... I need to think about this .. !

However in the mean time if they are not separated by space then their seemingly instant communication would still be within the rules .. ie: no speed limit broken.

something we've never encountered before in our normal universe

But 'Quantum Entanglement' and 'Speed of light being a maximum' are both in our normal universe... Its conceptualising (is that a word) it that I am having difficulty with.

Einstein said "For we convinced physicists, the distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, however persistent. The only thing thats real is the whole of spacetime"

With the above in mind, to then take either SPACE or TIME as separate entities and make a definite decision based on either of these and arrive at 'something we have never encountered before in our normal universe' ... could this lead to errors in our perception?

If space-time is the entity, then we are travelling thru (space x time) at a certain rate. The 'result' of this multiplcation is our 'normal universe' which we all perceive.

We can reduce the 'space' in the formula and increase the 'time' in the formula to give us the same 'result' which we will perceive as our 'normal universe' but it is not.

In other words space-time remains the same, but space and time are flexible and adjustable parameters within the formula.

In the case of entanglement either of these figures could be manipulated to give by our standards a great deal of space. But in fact there may be no space between them. Its just that the answer comes out the same

I am really just brainstorming here and am probably in the wrong forum. Also I don't know that I have made myself very clear. Appreciate your reply.
GREG

[Guille]

Einstein said "For we convinced physicists, the distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, however persistent. The only thing thats real is the whole of spacetime"

But this means that then there are no space-time points. So, in this exact moment, the universe is dissapearing, mozart is being born, and hitler is growing his empire?

[Graybeard]

Guille .....

These are not my opinions, these are quotes anyone can look up...

NEWTON: Space is an Entity: accelerated motion is not relative; The ABSOLUTIST position

LEIBNIZ: Space is not an Entity; All aspects of motion are relative; The RELATIONIST position

MACH: Space is not an Entity; Accelerated motion is relative to average mass distribution in the Universe; The RELATIONIST position

EINSTEIN; (special relativity) Space & Time are individually relative; Space-Time is an Absolute Entity;

(the fabric of the cosmos, brian greene, 2004)

So what you say about Hitler & Mozart is true, if you are far enough away, or alternatively, going very, very, fast (but why only the german motif?)

[Guille]

I nver ment to ofend you.

Now, all these positions have either already been proven wrong or will be anytime, as all positions.

Also, remember that if you go very very very very fast, doesn't matter how fas,t i f you have mass, you will never achieve to get over the speed of light and thus, you will never go back in time. Only things that can go faster than the speed of light (if these things exist, and they must hav eno mass for it) could go faster than the speed of light.

I hadn¡t really noticed that both of them were german. I don't know, I jsut got them purelly randomly....They are just big people in history, that's why I presume...

[Dave8679]

FYI Mozart wasn't German - he was Austrian (born in Salzburg)

[Guille]

FYI Mozart wasn't German - he was Austrian (born in Salzburg)

True. But it's actually argued because austria didn't exist, it was just a collection of some states of the german-roman empire.

[Graybeard]

Guille ... no offence taken ... sorry if i gave that impression...

Now, all these positions have either already been proven wrong or will be anytime, as all positions.

Why do you say they will be proven wrong. I am not saying you can go back in time. I am saying that by accelerating at a different rate to anyone else, time will change at different rates ....

I don't know much about music .... i must have been thinking of Wagner!!

Anyway ... I think we are off the track ... What I am puzzled about is how 2 particles appear to be connected accross space .. so that if you affect one you cause the other to instantly (instantly) take on that property ....... regardless of the fact that even at the speed of light they would not have had time to communicate..

in fact they behave as though they were the one particle ... except spin is reversed.

They give all appearances' of being in the same place ... yet we know they are widely seperated...

regards greg

[Guille]

greybeard,

Until now, the only solution I've heard of that can fight the problem you describe is aether. The problem is, which aether? The best for me is the aether of qauntum aether dynamics.