Evolution ?

[austintorn@aol.com]

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul.

by Free Will-i-am Henley

I see, GG, that you have chosen for
determinism to take the fall… maybe?

So, determinism is out the window?

[ggullet]

One would be a fool not to admire great works of art just because they don't mesh with their beliefs

[austintorn@aol.com]

(Of course works of art can be admired as art, for this one can choose, too. So is determinism totally thrown out of the window now, GG? Maybe you thought I wouldn't ask again if no answer came forth?)

Tainted With Evil? No.

The Captain is fully free to will the ship,
Whither whence to leave the anchored slip,
For God’s giving meant really really free will
Even if it doesn’t even match His own Will.

This Guy ain’t of no mere human image made,
Like some wretched caricature that man bade,
But is Love and More and Completely Giving,
Being totally and absolutely all forgiving.

So, thus He need not show,
Staying all the way invisible;
There wouldn’t be no free-to-be-so,
If He bossed the human show.


(But, but some human mammal said
That He said
“Accept or burn”,
Or some such made up stuff in turn.)

[ggullet]

I thought the answer was in my reply
like dew on blades of grass, glistening
everything that happens is determined
until someone invents a time machine

[austintorn@aol.com]

OK, then, back to that the path is determined and so we can't really go against our fate of destiny written in stone. No free will, man-made, God-made, or home made, and penalties for being in this condition.

So we'll be that which we must be, even if we change and choose, for that too was written in our stars. Anyway, the opposite state of something being determined is random—and who would want that? Would we then all be air-heads?

Falling for second hand
Words of the invisible Man
Is no more to understand
But of some accounts by man.


Hey, Omar Khayyam just logged into ToeQuest:


With Earth's first Clay They did the Last Man knead,
And there of the Last Harvest sow'd the Seed:
And the first Morning of Creation wrote
What the Last Dawn of Reckoning shall read.

I tell you this — When, started from the Goal,
Over the flaming shoulders of the Foal
Of Heav'n Parwín and Mushtarí they flung,
In my predestined Plot of Dust and Soul.

What! out of senseless Nothing to provoke
A conscious Something to resent the yoke
Of unpermitted Pleasure, under pain
Of Everlasting Penalties, if broke!

What! from his helpless Creature be repaid
Pure Gold for what he lent him dross-allay'd —
Sue for a Dept he never did contract,
And cannot answer — Oh, the sorry trade!

Oh Thou, who didst with a pitfall and with gin
Beset the Road I was to wander in,
Thou wilt not with Predestined Evil round
Enmesh, and then impute my Fall to Sin!

Would but some wingéd Angel ere too late
Arrest the yet unfolded Roll of Fate,
And make the stern Recorder otherwise
Enregister, or quite obliterate!

[ggullet]

It's not in determinism we should seek blame
but why, when, what, and who determined the game
if it is determined we get these answers then we will have something at stones we could throw
but the wise determiner made sure it's identity is something we will never know

[austintorn@aol.com]

TOE is that we cannot KNOW, so far… having gone through many tries.
So we're as free as the birds, the bees, and butterflies!

[melanie]

It's not in determinism we should seek blame
but why, when, what, and who determined the game
if it is determined we get these answers then we will have something at stones we could throw
but the wise determiner made sure it's identity is something we will never know

We are the mirror as well as the face in it.

We are tasting the taste this minute of eternity.

We are pain and what cures pain both.

We are the sweet cold water and the jar that pours.

I want to hold you close like a lute so we can cry out with loving.

You would rather throw stones at a mirror?

I am your mirror, and here are the stones.

~Rumi

[melanie]

Hi gg...I, myself have an alternative idea of evolution but Mel connected evolution to our civilization's situation of progressing and advancing through globalism which is an economic progression of the collective society into the state of constant consumerism. Of course in this state constant and quick production of products to consume go right along with it. I dropped this article because of our proclivity to technoligically introduce into our own environment a huge influx of chemicalized products to meet the demand of constant consumerism.

Mikal

Thanks Mikal.
Human civilizations have always lived beyond their means.
Consumer demand is a self perpetuating dilemma.
The ruling parties of the world are going to have to think very fast as time is running out.
We are doomed as a species if we do not return to a frugal simple life.
A life ruled by pious enlightened men and women.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Some important issues we need to ponder regarding toxic chemicals and poisons etc
For a sustainable earth we urgently need to address these grave issues NOW

'' If you’ve eaten poison, you must get rid of the substances that are making you ill.
Let us then, apply the stomach pump to the doctrines of economic growth that we have been force-fed for decades.''

'' We cannot have too many people alive simultaneously lest we destroy carrying capacity
and thereby reduce the number of lives possible in all subsequent time periods. ''



Along with achieving equilibrium in population and economic activity,
a worthy vision will almost certainly include Herman Daly's conditions for sustainable use of resources.

Meeting the three sustainable conditions

1—To be sustainable, the rate of use of renewable resources
must be below the rate at which they are being regenerated;

2—To be sustainable, the rate of use of non-renewable resources
must be below the rate at which appropriate renewable substitutes
are being found and brought onstream;

3—To be sustainable, the rate of pollution emissions must be below
the rate at which the biosphere can sustainably detoxify or assimilate them.

These conditions, of course, apply at two levels:
There is the separate level,
where resources are considered individually in terms of meeting the conditions for sustainability.

Resources such as water or fossil fuels or forests or CO2 assimilation in the atmosphere
must individually meet the conditions for sustainability.

Are we using our forests renewably? Our fresh water?
Are we using our fossil fuels no faster than renewable energy sources
are coming online to replace them? And so on.

Then there is the general, global level:
Since all things in the biosphere are so connected, we also want to ask:
Globally, are we implementing adequate renewable substitutes for non-renewable resource losses?

Are we below the earth's carrying capacity in terms of overall assimilation of pollutants?
And are we below the earth's limits for regenerating her renewable resources?
One of the biggest challenges of the 21st century will likely be accurately responding to such questions.

Is anybody listening?

[melanie]

Hopi Indian Wisdom.


Alone, in the presence of others, I walk through the waking dream of life.

Others see me. At first sight of recognition, they turn away, for they have forgotten.

Together, through the waking dream of life, we journey.

May the clarity of my vision guide your life in grace, for I am part of you.

May my action remind you of your God within, my action is your action.

May my breath become the breath that fills your body with life.

May my soul become the food with which to nourish and quicken you.

May the words from my mouth find a place of truth within your heart.

Let my tears become water to your lips.

Allow my love to heal your body of the pain of life.

In your most healed state, may you remember your most precious gift; your divine nature.

Through our time together, may you know yourself.

In that knowing, may you find your true home, your God within.


God is within us

Heaven is on earth

Welcome to you, new human.

Welcome to Heaven.

The time to remember is now.




"This is how you slip into your infinite home:
Close your eyes and surrender."

~Rumi