Evolution ?

[melanie]

Evolution- Where are we going with this concept ?

Are we evolved, are we much happier, are we richer, are we more comfortable, are we secure, are we ?
Or are we heading right back to the place where we started from ?

And what's with all the plastic, ? that is a very grave issue.

Did the human brain get too big?
A thinking species destroys the planet.
Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
When man thinks he makes things.
When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).
A thinking species destroys the planet.


LHC Now not working, millions of euros needed to fix it.
And for what and for why?



Infinite growth and development on a tiny planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference?

Industrial Society is insane.

Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself.
Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment because man did not make Nature/ Environment.
Once a Forest is destroyed it is gone for millions of years.

One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years it takes millions of years to make a forest containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees.

Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years not a forest.
The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it leave it alone leave it undisturbed.

If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.
No Multi National Company can manufacture the Amazon Rainforests.
No MNC can manufacture Rivers and Oceans.
No MNC can manufacture Mountains and Deserts.
No MNC can manufacture milions of species and fertile soil.
No MNC can manufacture the Sun.

The glaciers have melted. Arctic Ice has melted.
Man can use all his Technology all the Refrigeration and AirConditioning Technology but he will not be able to recreate the glaciers and Arctic Ice.

Many species of wild animals used to have hundreds of thousands/ millions of members.
Now it is down to a few hundred/ a few thousand. Which MNC is going to restore the animal population to its original level?
The Oceans have almost been emptied of all large Fish.
Which MNC is going to bring the Fish back in the Ocean?
Man has hunted down several species to extinction after Industrial Revolution.
Which MNC is going to make them reappear?

There was a time when Man used to say
I work in order to feed my family.
I work in order to put Food on the Table.
Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.
Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes,
Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.

Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
There is too much weight on the Table.
And the Table has begun to creak.

The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.
The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.
The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.
The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.
The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans the Rivers and Lakes.

There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.
We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.
Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.
Destroy Shopping Culture.
Go back to Simple Living.
Go back to putting just Food on the Table.

So let us keep on with what we like to call progress,
we must think positive.

namaste.
mel.

[analog]

Hi Mel,

All things have different perspectives by which they can be viewed. If you consider humans as the important aspect of existence (as most people do, but I don't) then the argument could easily be made that science driven technological advancements have provided the infrastructure (e.g. health care, economic, educational, etc.) which has allowed the maximum number of humans to be born and live in the minimal amount of time, whereby many more individuals have had a chance to live than would have otherwise been possible if not for scientific and technological advancements. Not to mention the ever increasing quality of life those individuals have been allowed to experience, as their deep natural desire to reproduce has been balanced and supported by an advancing society which allows them to continue this trend without having to pass out permits for giving birth to children, due to an imbalance of population to resources of any nature.

The imaginary Earth loving world of many simply can't support nearly the population as our current system, due to the insufficient abilities of the individual. Societies thrive when knowledge is specialized among groups of individuals whereby not needing to be totally dispersed amongst the masses equally. Only a small group of people feed the whole and are thus the only ones required to have a knowledge of how to do so. Unlike times in our recent past, those who can't grow a thing are still able to eat due to the efficiency by which our society operates as a whole. Others have attributes that benefit in varying aspects of daily life whereby individuals become specialized in their aspect of society rather than each individual having to know all of the mechanics required to merely survive.

From an evolutionary stance, the extinction of individual species is also the catalyst which has allowed the diversity and complexity of life which we now see here on Earth; diversity which we've also further unearthed to acknowledge past existence of varying species. Just as individual people have died throughout the ages whereby others have taken their place and history isn't stagnant with just the same old souls being around forever, so too have many species undergone extinction to expose a niche later secured by a new group emerging and evolving to have their turn at life.

As for the harm to our planet, it too is a matter of perspective. We simply don't know enough about the mechanics of a planet or the dynamic effects of life upon it (which equate to a co-evolving system) to make statements about our effects here, or properly evaluate our performance. Most people's views are in reference to the sustainment of our form of life being the objective goal, but this is a proud and perhaps premature concept on our part. Until we discover the true objective by which all other aspects of existence can be found subjective, then we know nothing about the world we live in. Some things may be found to be out of our control, as we may find ourselves as merely a small gear in the universal machine that churns out existence as we know it. Personally and from my most objective paradigm, I don't think we could screw this up if we wanted to, but that doesn't mean that I don't have values of my own, similar to your's.

later,

Tim

[austintorn@aol.com]

Man is just another animal among 50 million species that feed on nature—the environment and each other, as all must do.

[Graybeard]

Wow ... great thread ..... why is it in the public square and not in a science forum ???

So far all are great posts .... are we finally forming a common front ?? .... lol

cool bananas ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

It seems like a thread about minding and saving the environment…

But as for evolution,
Mel has elsewhere granted it
The state of having happened,
And so we do converge
On the way we emerged.

I was thinking, the other day when I was thirsty, about how there were a trillion trillion atoms in just a cubic inch of water, and had to conclude that evolution became of utter chaos and so no one could have foreseen all of it's results or even guided it along as the interactions were way too many.

[leskey]

Wow ... great thread ..... why is it in the public square and not in a science forum ???

Maybe, because there's less chance of being mugged in open public places....

Well chosen, Mel!

[austintorn@aol.com]

This public is all concrete and cement. A modern day kid is skateboarding around. I asked him why he's not playing in the woods as we did when we were kids.

He said that the woods were full of trees, not to mention bugs.

I asked if the forest would be OK to go into if we removed all the trees.

He answered, "Yes, and if you paved it over."

[Mikal]

I would have to agree with Austin...this seems more about where economic progress or economic advancement has taken us, than it is about evolution. Isn't evolution about a process of development???


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

"Who is mugging Evolution?" Natural Selection asked.

"It is I," answered Perfect Awareness. I'll let you have the theory fully intact if you will say that I foresaw it all from the beginning."

"And your own beginning foreseen?"

"Let's say that it would have used up all of eternity's infinity to evolve me—and so it was that I had no beginning, always having been totally intact and fully formed."

"OK, let's say that."

[austintorn@aol.com]

— The Long Road —

Our blind-fated path was the further paved
When asteroids finished most of the species—
Far from a feature of intelligent design;
But, it opened the space that was needed.