Meta-physics - there's no room in here for two.

[melanie]

The phantom need not show up to it's own show.

[labelwench]

The phantom need not show up to it's own show.

Phantoms and free hugs? Great! I'll take one of each....

The following is just something I stumbled over on the way by....

Define: Phantom,
Something apparently sensed but having no physical reality; "seemed to hear faint phantom bells"; "the amputee's illusion of a phantom limb". A phantom is an immaterial being or ghost. There are reported phantom travelers, phantom monks, phantom nuns, and phantom vehicles, some driver-less. Often synonymous with ghost, the word "phantom" can also refer to a vision of a living person or an inanimate object. Visions are often spoken of as containing phantoms as the protagonists

[Graybeard]

The phantom need not show up to it's own show.

Define: Phantom,
Something apparently sensed but having no physical reality; "seemed to hear faint phantom bells"; "the amputee's illusion of a phantom limb". A phantom is an immaterial being or ghost. There are reported phantom travelers, phantom monks, phantom nuns, and phantom vehicles, some driver-less. Often synonymous with ghost, the word "phantom" can also refer to a vision of a living person or an inanimate object. Visions are often spoken of as containing phantoms as the protagonists

Wot ?? ... the Phantom lives in a cave shaped like a skull and is known as 'The Ghost Who Walks'

cool bananas ... greg

[labelwench]

The following originally posted by Wick, post #656 Resting Light Theory.

And so it was that Greg, moving at a steady pace toward Hell, came upon a point through which he could not pass—a relatively stationary point, into whom he collided—and owing to whom he was knock squarely upon his posterior.

“How did you do that!” Greg asked in shock, for he had never as yet made contact with anything upon the Universe through which he could not pass.

“I’m not like you,” the point simply stated. “I’m a figure of some substance,” the obstinate point persisted, “through which you cannot pass.”

Greg was shocked. “I’ll be damned!” he cursed. “Then how shall I continue on my way toward Hell!?”

“I know nothing of Hell,” the point said in a disgusting matter-of-fact tone that irritated Greg to the very tip of his point. “They call me a triangle and I am surfing on the waves of your Line.”

“My Line?” Greg asked puzzled. “I had a wheelbarrow when I was on my way to Heaven. But now I’m going to Hell and I have no possessions…least of all a Line...whatever a Line might be.”

“This place you call the ‘Universe’ is the Line I speak of,” the point explained.

“The Universe is straight!” Greg responded not knowing exactly why he said it (though he had learned this saying in catechism and it somehow comforted him to say it).

“Your universe is not straight,” the point insisted. “If it were straight, would I be surfing here?”

“What is this surfing you speak of?” Greg asked.

“Surfing is to go up and then down and then up again…and then down again…many times.”

“Foolish pastime.” Greg said. “We call that pacing and it gets you nowhere.”

“I don’t think you understand my nature.” The point replied. “Come close to me and let me show you.”

Cautiously, Greg approached the point then pressed against the point slowly in a vain attempt to pass through. To his surprise, the point pushed back, and as he did so Greg felt himself moving toward Heaven with no power to stop the curious force of this “substantial” point's "push". But even more astonishing after pushing Greg several feet toward Heaven, the point vanished altogether.

Greg broke into a cold sweat. “What is this?” he asked himself. “Has a ghost passed by me today. Whence came the force that nudged me toward heaven? Whence went the strange point that calls himself substantial?”

Then Greg felt something that cause him to quake to the very center, for it seemed as if the voice of the strangely substantial point was coming from Greg’s own mouth and these are the words he found himself speaking (though he was absolutely certain his mouth was closed). “I am no point. I am a triangle. Your ‘Universe’ is not straight, but is a wavy line into which I have just dived, and upon which I will soon be surfing again.”

Greg turned pale, screamed a wild, high-pitched scream, then crawled a bit closer to Heaven. “I am being punished!” Greg wailed, “for going toward Hell! Heaven help me! I’m possessed with an evil spirit who has entered into me and who speaks nonsense through my very own lips!”

[Graybeard]

The following originally posted by Wick, post #656 Resting Light Theory.

Then Greg felt something that cause him to quake to the very center, for it seemed as if the voice of the strangely substantial point was coming from Greg’s own mouth and these are the words he found himself speaking (though he was absolutely certain his mouth was closed). “I am no point. I am a triangle. Your ‘Universe’ is not straight, but is a wavy line into which I have just dived, and upon which I will soon be surfing again.”

This was the Parliament of Birds
and this .....
the story of the host who went amiss ...
and of the few, who better upshot found.

The story, being now recounted,
Lo, the ground ... falls underfoot
But this to tell:
Their path is thine
follow .... and fare thee well

Farid ud-Din Attar (Abu Hamid bin Abu Bakr Ibrahim 1177)

Eventually only thirty birds remain as they finally arrive in the land of Simorgh — all they see there are each other and the reflection of the thirty birds in a lake — not the mythical Simorgh. It is the Sufi doctrine that God is not external or separate from the universe, rather is the totality of existence. The thirty birds seeking the Simorgh realise that Simorgh is nothing more than their transcendent totality. The idea of God within is an idea intrinsic to most interpretations of Sufism. The birds realize the truth, they are all there is

[Graybeard]

And just for Mikal:

Led by the Hoopoe , the birds of the world set forth in search of their king, Simurgh . Their quest takes them through seven valleys in the first of which a hundred difficulties assail them. They undergo many trials as they try to free themselves of what is precious to them and change their state. Once successful and filled with longing, they ask for wine to dull the effects of dogma, belief, and unbelief on their lives.

In the second valley, the birds give up reason for love and, with a thousand hearts to sacrifice, continue their quest for discovering the Simurgh. The third valley confounds the birds, especially when they discover that their worldly knowledge has become completely useless and their understanding has become ambivalent. There are different ways of crossing this Valley, and all birds do not fly alike. Understanding can be arrived at variously—some have found the Mihrab , others the idol.

The fourth valley is introduced as the valley of detachment, i.e., detachment from desire to possess and the wish to discover. The birds begin to feel that they have become part of a universe that is detached from their physical recognizable reality. In their new world, the planets are as minute as sparks of dust and elephants are not distinguishable from ants. It is not until they enter the fifth valley that they realize that unity and multiplicity are the same. And as they have become entities in a vacuum with no sense of eternity.

More importantly, they realize that God is beyond unity, multiplicity, and eternity. Stepping into the sixth valley, the birds become astonished at the beauty of the Beloved. Experiencing extreme sadness and dejection, they feel that they know nothing, understand nothing. They are not even aware of themselves. Only thirty birds reach the abode of the Simurgh.

But there is no Simurgh anywhere to see. Simurgh's chamberlain keeps them waiting for Simurgh long enough for the birds to figure out that they themselves are the si (thirty) murgh (bird). The seventh valley is the valley of deprivation, forgetfulness, dumbness, deafness, and death. The present and future lives of the thirty successful birds become shadows chased by the celestial Sun. And themselves, lost in the Sea of existence, are the Simurgh.


The poem's title possibly served as inspiration for jazz bassist Dave Hollands 's 1972 album of the same name.

Attar's Seven Valleys of Love in the Manteq al-Tayr

• The Valley of Quest
• The Valley of Love
• The Valley of Understanding
• The Valley of Independence and Detachment
• The Valley of Unity
• The Valley of Astonishment and Bewilderment
• The Valley of Deprivation and Death

(a tale of evolution .... ?????)

cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Part I

Part II

[Drifter]

The Four and Seven Valley's

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SVFV/

[melanie]

Wot ?? ... the Phantom lives in a cave shaped like a skull and is known as 'The Ghost Who Walks'

cool bananas ... greg

The phantom living in a cave shaped like a skull?
Now come on Greg, we all know that's just a widely held but false belief.
In reality, it lives within the vast emptiness of the imagination.. and my mum said that phantoms don't really exist at all.

''The Ghost Who Walks'' > > imaged and frozen in realtimespace... An imprint of the imageless, the appearance of the Image_Nation

Images appear via the senses ..
the label 'person' or 'brain' are concepts overlaid upon the senses .... the idea that there is a person with a brain is pseudo nonsense.

[melanie]

Part I

Part II

This was very enjoyable and fun...... thanks for posting it Greg..