[TinyTree]

This conjecture is that once the TOE is figured out, it will not be understood by anyone except the progenitor, therefore it will be ignored for decades, or even hundreds of years (and by that time their writing will be lost to obscurity).

The major thinkers who have become reknown all created ideas for which there was a thirst for their idea, and for which their idea was an extension of existing thought at the time. They were radical, but only slightly radical.

Truly radical ideas will not be comprehended or understood by those who control the pathways of thought, and thus truly revolutionary ideas will vanish, without a speck of impact on the flow of mainstream or even cutting edge thought- because there will be no one there to receive them.

[Guille]

I would like to call this The TOE Conjecture. I do so for then we can start building up the series of developments that have happened through these forums: including The TOE Paradox, How the TOE should be, The Role of the Human Mind in the TOE, and now, The TOE Conjecture.

I have a series of comments and objections to the conjecture:

1. If there is a true uncertainity world wide of what the TOE is when it is made, for nobody will even know it, then how do you know it has not happened yet? There is a high probability then.

2. The term radical is very versatile. Radical could meen extremist, in which case, I disagree, for the TOE is about nature and nature is not extreme at all: it is centralised and stabilised. If radical means not conventional or related to present and previosu thought, I agree. Einstein 100 years ago did make a theory that is now widelly accepted, but in it's time it was really new and disagreed with the way the world thought.

[harmonygirl]

I think TOE conjecture is a good title. My comments on your comments (smile) are:
1. If TOE had happened, there would have been some kind of impact. It doesn't sound like there has been, and as far as I can see nothing has changed. It may be that TOE has happened but is wisely being held until we won't subvert it to nefarious ends.
2. in my opinion, most worthwhile ideas have been radical (different from merely unconventional) for the time.
My sense is if TOE happens, in order to be understood we need to change how we quantify (or appreciate) our enviroment. I don't know that whomever deciphers TOE will be necessarily misunderstood by the rest of the TOE seeking community. It seems to me that there are aspects of many people's hypotheses that are congruent. I think that there may be a few different ways of getting to TOE, but they are not nec mutually exclusive...

[baudrunner]

I think the TOE is staring us all in the face, but the world is averse to simplicity and understanding. We respect that which we do not understand and hold it in high esteem, and disparage that which is too simple and uncomplicated because it is not merited by the status quo which demands that in order for any person who claims to have developed the TOE to be taken seriously (s)he must have at the very least a masters degree in a number of disciplines and a doctorate in one. That way a few noteables can confirm its authenticity, whether they understand it or not, and the rest of the world can hold them in awe, whether or not they have an inkling of what the proponent is trying to say, yet they will make person of the year on the cover of Time magazine. That is how life is. The majority are represented by those they idolize while those who know the real truth are ignored and ostracized because they "know too much". The world is full of it. Alll the education in the world does not make one a genius if they are not already born that way.

So, the bottom line is, since the people that we are relying on to tell us how it is are gettng it wrong anyway lest it come across as too simple, too easy for the status quo, which the truth happens to be actually anyway, and those who do know it aren't getting any attention, will we ever know the TOE?

Of course not.

[mkirkpatrick]

Understanding the TOE is not the problem,it is the accepting of it that is the
problem.The TOE has been known to many in the east and a few in the west
for thousands of years!And has been accepted by many in the field of esoteric sciences for centuries.It is just that those in the west that keep
postulating one theory after another,some working together,some ridiculing
the other,my theory is more profound than yours!Like a dog chasing its tail
they spin round and round "like a demented vortex".The simple and very,very,
basic answer to the TOE,is that all manifestation,Absolutly all of IT is and only is a product of mind,and that,that mind we are ALL interconnected to.


kind regards michael.

[pagan3142]

Originally Posted by baudrunner I think the TOE is staring us all in the face, but the world is averse to simplicity and understanding. We respect that which we do not understand and hold it in high esteem, and disparage that which is too simple and uncomplicated because it is not merited by the status quo which demands that in order for any person who claims to have developed the TOE to be taken seriously (s)he must have at the very least a masters degree in a number of disciplines and a doctorate in one. That way a few noteables can confirm its authenticity, whether they understand it or not, and the rest of the world can hold them in awe, whether or not they have an inkling of what the proponent is trying to say, yet they will make person of the year on the cover of Time magazine. That is how life is. The majority are represented by those they idolize while those who know the real truth are ignored and ostracized because they "know too much". The world is full of it. Alll the education in the world does not make one a genius if they are not already born that way. So, the bottom line is, since the people that we are relying on to tell us how it is are gettng it wrong anyway lest it come across as too simple, too easy for the status quo, which the truth happens to be actually anyway, and those who do know it aren't getting any attention, will we ever know the TOE? Of course not.

Your dead right , the unenlightened will never get it. I think most people on TOE are into a power trip.
IT is hard to deal with these people because thier minds are so fixed that they find change hard to accept.
I also think that they are using TOE as an outlet from thier boredom and hum drum life.
A good post.

[harmonygirl]

Baud, good post! I agree. Simplicity is rarely prized until you personally experience it. It sounds like you have that appreciation. We still don't know why 1 + 1 = 2. We accept it as fact, but don't know why it is.
Michael, I also agree. There are many Eastern ways of apprehending the whole that are, in effect, a TOE. You are also right about ego interfering (and I like the simile!). This is probably why we agree so much!
My preliminary TOE has much to do with harmonics, but can't be communicated through language. I don't this this makes it complex, just personal.

[hanzoganz]

From what I`ve been reading this days, it seems that scientists are judged to fight a race against each other just because of their ego. I have to disagree with you on this. We make scince for the pleasure of doing it. It is a creative job that gives rewards. If it seems like an ego-race is not because of the nature of science but on the requisites that the system has on us. We are forced to submit papers and thesis and reports and applications and... So a lot of time we are dealing with the system so they can let us do our job.

As for the understanding: A theory may or may not be liked by your colleagues but if they have a given degree of preparation, they will be able to know if it makes sense or not. That´s the beauty of science. It dosn´t have to deal with who is better known or has more prestige; it deals with true, with algorithims that can be verified universally.

Is there a TOE? Was it discovered long ago? Not sure, but I`m sure that sometimes it is not the result but the road that i enjoy.

[baudrunner]

Well, I like to think that I know what the #$@%! is going on!

[Marketa]

baudrunner, right you are. All the words (including mathematic symbols) are like #$@%!. Before one tries to understand TOE, he/she should know, HOW to understand.