One TOE or many?

[Benedict Broere]

Postmodernists deny any TOE, and otherwise they would go for many TOE's - each one their own TOE. But to me Einstein is right. If TOE than one TOE !

"The most important task for scientists is to search for the most fundamental laws, from which a picture of the world can be deduced. There is no logical path that leads to these elementary laws, only an intuitive one, based on creativity and experience.

With such a methodological uncertainty one would think that an arbitrary number of equally valid systems would be possible. However, history shows that of all conceivable constructions always a single one did stand out as absolutely superior to all others."

Albert Einstein 1918

[TinyTree]

I think it will come down to the "starting assumption". There will always be another set of starting assumptions which validly point to the existing structures and physical law. They may not be as simple, refined, pure, or accepted, but they will be just as valid.

So if you are a subscriber to "simplest explanation" then there is probably only going to be one toe. However, if you subscribe to "any perfect fit" then there will be multiple TOE's.

[Unreal Zelta]

BB,
There will indeed be many Toes, in fact, everyone of us will have an unique Toe. There will never be a, as mean 'one' theory that can satisfy or convince everyone; due to our different approaches and or interpretations for the theory (The theory of everything).

Toe is not in the mainstream theories, so of course there will be more 'superior' theories which will dominate the direction of physics. I believe the purpose of 'Toe' is to allow theorists to discuss their off the mainstream ideas and or theories freely in a never ending thread.

Best regards

Zelta

[siddharthsma]

I believe there will be one TOE. That TOE will have to combine Quantum Mechanics and relativity. That TOE should end all theoretical Physics.

[Unreal Zelta]

Sid,
Theoretical physics is very important, it's the essence of human minds. It holds the key to many yet to be unlocked mysteries, it also gives us the freedom of choice. In addition, it develops our creativity and imagination which are much needed for a break through in the science/physics community.

The TOE is only an imaginative goal, which I personally believe will never be unravelled. It's merely a symbolic tool, which helps us to develop more unique ideas and or theories. It's something we are working towards, but cannot reach it in any means; however, during that process we make new theories, which will perhaps solve a problem in another area, but can never solve the TOE itself.

Best regards

Zelta

[Benedict Broere]

TinyTree/Unreal Zelta,
I think the way we generate worldviews or interpretations of reality can be drawn into the scientificly researchable with neurology, psychology, sociology, history, etc. And maybe than we discover, as I suggested in the earlier thread 'Variation is the key', that all our philosophies, religions, etc., are variations on some order or pattern or theme that has it's effect in our brain and consciousness while interacting with reality. So TOE? If TOE than beyond the paradigmatical diversity of the subject.

Sidsharthsma,
Your naturalistic worldview would also be part of what can be generated out of this general pattern. What means a law concerning the physical reality wouldn't be sufficient for explaining everything. It would explain a part of an everything that is a variation on a really general principle. It would explain for instance the mathematics that made the physical laws possible.

To me, I don't distinguish between 'the world out there' and 'the world within' - referring to the great subject-object-divide that came up in the Modern Time (Descartes, Kant, Husserl, etc.). In my opinion it is all part of one developing system: universe, nature, culture and us as reality-interpreting organisms. This system consists of elements that bear information that can be ordered into patterns. And all these patterns can, I think, be organised via reversed variation into a central theme, that really would be the TOE.

What do you think?

[Unreal Zelta]

BB,
New theories and discoveries are made each day, this will go on as long as humans are present. Consequently, we are adding more and more into the TOE; however this is endless. Further more, there will always be the unknown, the question and answer singularity/continuum is that(meaning unknown) far. All of this contribute to the never ending pathway of solving the TOE.

So perhaps we should change the theory of everything (TOE) to the theory of everyone (also TOE); what do you think?

Best regards

Zelta

[dleviwing]

Once science recognizes the fundamental laws of absolutes, the only mysteries remaining will be the understanding of life and consciousness to complete the TOE.

[humanbydefault]

I get lost sometimes when I read the expectations some members of this forum embrase about the TOE.
The concept was brought to life by Einstein in the sense that he conceived a theory that will be able to unify GRAVITY with ELECTROMAGNETISM and forces observed inside the atom alone. It was also called "unified field theory." I don't deny that such accomplishement will have a direct impact in other fields of knowledge like philosophy and cosmology to mention just a coupple of them but to say that the "TOE" will explain EVERYTHING is not part of my personal expectations. I don't see the conexion between INVARIANCE and a human feeling called LOVE for example... I don't want to sound too "out of harmony" with the rest of you but I found that "up-grading" from a more advanced physical theory to something that will resemble the "mind of God" using Einstein's own words.. I don't know... it appears to me non-sense not science>>> Sorry.
Mathematics will be the language of the THEORY as we expect it to be but it won't be math that will take us to its hiding place. Some people call it "FAITH" I prefer the term "INTUITION" insted... It will have to include a little bit of that too... We'll see.

HBD

[Guille]

Whoever thinks that the theory of everything will give us all the knowledge, information, understanding, wisdom... Of the universe, is believing the impossible. The so-called TOE will simply be the foundations of the basic elements in the universe (matter, energy, force, dimensions) and that's it. As dave said, very correctly, it may be added the total (scientific) theory of life, and of consciousness (or, to be more general, of the brain-mind). Someone said that the TOE will be the unification of relativity and QM, that is true, for actually both form the basis of our understanding until now, but we will have to add several things to that unification, and maybe none of them will be part of the TOE (but definatelly ideas, equations, area-theories, will be used). Unreal Zelta is totally correct when he said that theoretical physics is the background of all our knowledge, and it is basically (not dictionary, but Guille's definition) 'the study of nature with the compound of mathematics and philosophy' (and those two are really different, so it is very significant to unite them). Benedict, postmodernists don't have an opinion in general about the TOE, each is different (that is the meaning of it, not all have to opinion the same to be in the same movement, for they admit it depends on the history/time and not only on the minds), but they wouldn't say there is one or many, they would simply say that it wouldn't explain everything (they are quite agnostic towards science) and that it won't be very much accepted. Again Unreal Zelta is correct, because even though not absolutelly everone will have a TOE, if it tries to explain what exists and what doesn't (that is, to be an absolute universal truth), it won't be followed, probably not even by it's inventor/discoverer.