E=mc2

[harmonygirl]

Great imagery, HBD, although I am not sure that you are correct when you say that music is the providence of the hearing. Beethoven? - while he was deaf as an adult, there are many deaf children who learn and play his music by feeling vibrations; also, Cadillac Eddie and the Rabble Rousers, an all-deaf rock band, and many other less-famous examples...

[Benedict Broere]

The metaphor 'music' is old and classic and I think it get's us closer to reality than any (contemporary) scientific method. Nice, HBD, very nice.

I'm still pondering on this exchange of thought by Guille and Ema. It seems it has to do with different kinds of approach, experience. I favour the Love-approach, because we almost drown in our western analytical stressing of differences. TOE means searching for the related, the making one, that which transcends previous differences.

Eistein said something about this: problems can't be overcome by the knowledge that generated them. It needs new knowledge.
For the TOE this means transcending differences. Reaching for a higher level of thought.

Ema,
Thanks for the compliments. But knowing the secret of the universe... One can have a hunch, one can try to make it plausible, and of course one can know for sure all by yourself, but knowing for everyone... ?

[harmonygirl]

I am learning about the mathematical underpinnings of this reality and I believe the TOE must explain this. Besides Pi and Phi, the 5 Platonic solids, Fibonacci number, etc. These patterns make up our reality and I think part of the TOE.

[humanbydefault]

Great imagery, HBD, although I am not sure that you are correct when you say that music is the providence of the hearing. Beethoven? - while he was deaf as an adult, there are many deaf children who learn and play his music by feeling vibrations; also, Cadillac Eddie and the Rabble Rousers, an all-deaf rock band, and many other less-famous examples...

Yes and that is a rare but intriguing phenomenon don't you think?
Blind people can't see the light but they develope other abilities to deal with the environment. It's not about vibrations alone as it is about the resonance and relationship among those particular sounds what makes the music a pleasureable experience. You could make something to vibrate and not necessarily create a harmonic pattern that could produce emotions... Do you follow me?
Music is the expression of feelings, memories and emotions in the form of "related" harmonics... But this is a subject that could take pages for ever.
Love is not a monopoly of humans alone as many used to say. Animals, plants and the rest of living things have other ways to express love that we maybe are not able to "pick up" with our "superior intellect."

HBD

[harmonygirl]

absolutely right, this could take pages! I think we'll just have to disagree, because while I agree music isn't just about the vibrations, if you have never had the auditory experience, who is to say that you don't attach emotional meaning to the vibrations that you can percieve?
On a happier note, I absolutely agree with you last statement!
Cheers,
hg

[Benedict Broere]

Harmonygirl,
I think also The Golden Section needs to be mentioned.
Look this over for instance: http://goldennumber.net/goldsect.htm
Harmony in sound, harmony in form, I think it's TOE one way or another looking us in the face. But now the connection with science...
Has science, modern science, ever researched beauty, harmony?
Scientists, at least some very important ones, say if there's no beauty in the equations it can't be true. What do you think?

[harmonygirl]

actually I think that science has researched beauty...If I recall correctly, facial symmetry was found to be considered beautiful, assymmetry was not considered attractive. The underlying order of harmony can definitely be described through mathematical patterns, Phi, Pi, mandlebrot, sacred geometry (like 5 Platonic solids) for example and I think this would be the scientific and mathematical aspect of the TOE. Perhaps it's correct to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because how can you not marvel at mandlebrot (for example)? I consider there is beauty, even poetry in some equations (and mandlebrot, which is not an equation and IMO more accurately describes nature because nature is not about absolute equality, but rather evolution). Perhaps it depends on your definition of beauty. Beauty as strictly aestethic would definitely not be found in equations, but the beauty of simplicity and discovery definitely is.

[Benedict Broere]

Facial symmetry, I read about that. I think one can link it with for instance the Taj Mahal or the Parthenon or even some Barok-architecture or maybe quality-architecture in general, and lots of art in general, music, a poem... I think it has to do with a kind of balance between opposites, not a dull balance, but a differentiated complexity of many elements that still become one and balanced. For instance the Nightwatch by Rembrandt. Complex. Lots is going on. But still it remains a thing of oneness and balance. A TOE would be like this, only then very abstract and general and simple.