[Unreal Zelta]

Hey everyone,
Instead of dragging on for pages about another theory of mine, I would like to approach the TOE in a slightly different way. By asking myself and all TOE community members; "what is limiting us in relation to finding the TOE?" Perhaps many of you do not think the TOE will ever to solved, but please feel free to comment on this.

The following are some of my ideas (only a starter)

• The society, and its tolerance for a international recognised theory.
• The carelessness/lack of knowledge of people in regard to physics, philosophy and TOE (etc).
• Our fear of change.
• The limits of mathematics.
• The (our) dependency on material prosperity.
• "Particle" physics.
• The current educational system, which is trapping students in a box.

And lastly "rules" which restrict us (too much) to follow a set of patterns .

How can we repair a pipe, when we don't know where it's leaking from. The same applies to the TOE. If we identify the problem, what do we need to do in order to solve it (them); a leaking pipe is just as bad if we don't have the necessary tools to fix it.

Hope to hear from all of you, no matter what you think/believe.

Best regards

Zelta

[mkirkpatrick]

Many thanks UZ,for your thoughtful and questioning thread,What is limiting us in relation to finding the TOE!You ask.One simple answer would be acceptance of the already gathered evidence,there is a vast store of information already held by science and the like,but they look for more,rather
than look at what they already have.Another barrier which is there is the general acceptance that the universe is alive and conscious,I say "general"
acceptance because there is a small but growing band of scientists,and
physicists who embrace and openly say that the universe is intelligence
personified,and accept that the toe will be answered as an intelligent thinking
universe,of which we are part of.You also ask howcan you repair a pipe,when you cannot find the leak?Again a very good question,I would suggest that rather than find and search for a leak,we look for a blockage instead?And that will be found "between the ears"of those who are blind to the reality
presented to them "in plain sight" and theysee it not???
Not wanting to be controvertable or anything,but one could also read the
thread consciousness holds the key to the TOE?Maybe then we would not be so limited!!!!!
kind regards michael.

[Unreal Zelta]

Hey Michael,
Thanks you for taking your time to view my thread!

Are humans so easily satisfied? Is this because of their carelessness? How can we take a bath/shower, when the pipe is still leaking (bath is referred to the TOE)?

If, we do not have further questions about this universe, and settle with what we have. It is not possible to advance any further. A blockade will only stop the water from coming into contact with us, which is exactly what many physicists (technicians) are currently doing; to cover up mistakes instead of solving them, and hope to delay the foreseen consequence (s).

I have always been a firm believer in "consciousness" and "thinking shapes reality". The way we perceive things rely on our consciousness, and as Heisenberg puts it " It's not nature itself we are observing, but nature exposed to out methods of questioning." So, lets ask ourselves again in a different way, by transpositioning the subject to "consciousness." Is consciousness limited?

I don't want to be cynical, but I guess I have to, in order to make another step on the quest for TOE.

Best regards

Zelta

[ema]

Hi Zelta...
really its a nice thread, i read it yesterday and thought about what limiting us..
your question is in the core ""How can we repair a pipe, when we don't know where it's leaking from.""

I will try to view my opinion as my english allow:

At First you talk about the socitey : its obvious that the society has a big part. I dont know about the other ones, but here, where im living, its hard to ask from the socitey to think in TOE..People here (fight to eat),they think only to get thier bites, to pay thier bills, then we want from them to think about Toe!, its really hard..
and this point reflects in the next: Their knowledge limits in::How to get more money!!, and when anyone ask me about my specalize, then i said" physics".. they say the same sentence" physics?..what you will get from physics?"," i understand my life!!"," really?, its better to learn something save ur life!"..what do you expect then!?

You discuss the limits of math..Ok, everything is limits!, math, physics, all science, untill our universe!!, then its normal to reach to a point you cant go after.. but future promise alot of progress as you see..

Particle physics: The samething, its a part of science then it is limites by our ability to build device with very high energy to discover more of its components..and i dont think that we will reach to the energy which needed to prove the GUT theory..

Then the joke starts on our( Current edu)..here we say a proverb and i don know if you have the same, its( like donkey carries books!!).. students here are the same: donkey is carrying the books without understanding anything, and students only study to get sucsess in exams then forget what they get!!!..its tragedy!

Moreover, we need continous reading to follow the fast progress in science..especially when you discover that your studying knowledge is stoping at 1926!!!

thanks for recalling me this!!

Regards
Ema

[harmonygirl]

Hey UZ, interesting question. I think that we are most restricted by 2 things:
1. we don't all have an idea of what the TOE encompasses, or which disciplines it will apply to. Is it the theory of everything or is it simply a way to reconcile QM and GR? Does it impact math, geometry, philosophy, spirituality?
2. We have (artificially IMO) separated 'truth' into many disciplines, each with their own set of rules. The rules make sense internal to the discipline, but attempting to reach truth outside the discipline becomes very frustrating! Earlier times, we had alchemy (which has gotten a REALLY bad name but I'm not sure why) which seemed to have been able to combine a few disciplines successfully (although not all of them). I think that our lack of harmony between various ways of finding truth (basically the tunnel vision we have) is the most limiting aspect of all.

[Unreal Zelta]

Ema,
Thank you for your realistic evidence!
Yes! Our backgrounds do contribute to this (as limitations), such as economic status and or the region that we live in, which both limit us to think further than feeding ourselves and finding a good job. (aforementioned; material prosperity).

I agree to your statement (or understatement...), "students here are the same: donkey is carrying the books without understanding anything, and students only study to get success in exams then forget what they get!!!..its tragedy!" I'm afraid this problem is not just a national problem (or regional), it's international. Here in New Zealand, we suffer the same problem; which leads to Harmony's point, the tunnel vision we have and also Michael's point of accepting what we already have.


Harmony,
Thank you for your well-thought additional limitations!
Indeed, differnent disciplines are not always compatible with each other. To solve the TOE, then do we have to combine them anyway? To transform them back to "its" original state as one theory? I think we are on to something here; if your statement is valid, then we must have "had" a TOE in past millenniums (cannot think of a word for a longer period...). Now the question is, how do we combine them? We already have metaphysics and astrophysics etc, but the reality is there are too many disciplines for merging. What are some other options we can have?

I guess limitations are only partial contributors, the more predominant aspect would "How we look at those limitations, and the subsequent actions we are willing take in regard." (what do you think?)

So once again, thank you both for taking your time to view and reply respectively.

Best regards

Zelta

[Unreal Zelta]

Is we do manage to solve the limitations, will the society accept them as new knowledge? Or are they too persistent on their old and beloved world?

Best regards

Zelta

[harmonygirl]

Hey UZ,
I think that the question was well posed. Being aware of our limitations is the first step in overcoming them. All of the things mentioned need to be accounted for and addressed. I suspect that if we are able to overcome our limitations, that the TOE itself will be the bridge to those who want to remain uni-disciplinary and would embrace at any cost their more narrow way of realizing truth.

[Benedict Broere]

Archetype,
I think you are mistaking 'a mathematical represention of everything' for a 'theory of everything'.

Unreal Zelta,
In about the same time Einstein, Bohr and consorts seriously started thinking, the general assumption was that physics was ready, finished, complete. And they faced a lot of resistance coming up with their 'crazy idea's'. These days you see something similar. Only now the general assumption is this world is some kind of machine that came up all by itself and that in itself has no deep inherent meaning. To me this TOE is a big pointer at a different kind of world, a world with meaning. While finding the TOE I think needs someone who starts with the latter view and not the first.

Correction,
1/0 is infinity, but is everything infinite ?
Let's stick just to this universe. Is it infinite? I think not.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Benedict Broere is everything infinite?

THAT is the question. The differences and similarities between the concepts of everything and infinite are very interesting. An infinite is always an everything, but not all everythings are infinites. But there is more to it, for example: Is the sum of all infinites everything or infinite? Could call this Guille's Infinity-Everything Paradox (GIEP).