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THE 5th ELEMENT
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THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 06:48 PM

The ancient Greeks had 5 fundamental elements;

--------Greek elements--------States of matter----

---------AIR-----------------------GAS--------------

---------WATER-------------------LIQUID-----------

---------EARTH--------------------SOLID-----------

---------FIRE----------------------PLASMA----------

---------AETHER------------------ETHER???????????

My question: IS ETHER OUR 5th STATE OF MATTER?
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 06:57 PM

Is ether more than one of the other elements combined? Like rust on a solid piece of metal? Then ether would be a part of the aging process.


sally.
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 06:59 PM

It depends what you mean by "ether"


~neutralino

If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't been much of a day - John A. Wheeler.
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 07:09 PM

I heard from gravitational waves, electromagnetic fields, quantum foam, all the above, none of the above.

Hey wait a minute that was my question.
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 07:47 PM

OK I just lifted this from RP's thread below;

"...Descarte was not so far from the truth when he believed he must exclude the existence of an empty space. The notion indeed appears absurd as long as physical reality is seen exclusively in ponderable bodies. It requires the idea of the field as the representative of reality, in combination with the General Principle of Relativity, to show the true kernel of Descarte's idea, 'there exists no space empty of field'." - Einstein, p.p.375 - 6, IDEAS & OPINIONS.

So maybe field
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 07:58 PM

You mean like attributing an energy to the vacuum? If so, then your thinking is rather main-stream here (what you are thinking of is called dark energy by cosmologists).

If not then, sorry, I appear to have misunderstood you.


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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 08:01 PM

I don't even know what I'm refering to Neutralino.

Sorry Back.
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profpat View Post
I don't even know what I'm refering to Neutralino.

Sorry Back.
Hey Prof:
You may be referring to 'ether' (aether) as the (quasi mysterious) conductor of all transient energy (and whatever other signals) through space...

Best regards,
- RP


(George Berkeley, 1710) ... lay the beginning in a distinct explication of what is meant by thing, reality, existence: for in vain shall we dispute concerning the real existence of things, or pretend to any knowledge thereof, so long as we have not fixed the meaning of those words.

"All things come out of the one and the one out of all things." - Heraclitus
"Reality is an illusion - albeit a persistent one." - Einstein
"Particles give me a headache." - Ibid
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 08:45 PM

I could be RP;

Maybe a better way to word it. IS THERE A 5th STATE OF MATTER?

Best to all,

Pat

P.S. Thanks for the quote RP
  
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Re: THE 5th ELEMENT - 11-16-2007, 09:11 PM

Well maybe I can't equate aether to ether. A little Wiki research yielded this;

According to ancient and medieval science, Aether (Greek αἰθήρ, aithēr[1]), also spelled ether, is the material that fills the region of the universe above the terrestrial sphere. Aristotle included it as a fifth element distinct from the other four, Earth, Water, Air, and Fire. Plato and Aristotle referred to Aether as "Idea", and in this sense, it may be regarded as that which exists outside the material world (i.e. thought processes, mathematical algorithms, etc.). Aether was also called quintessence (from quinta essentia, "fifth element"). Quintessence was also thought to be heavenly, i.e. not of the material world (matter). Quintessence was also said to have the power of life. Its Platonic solid was the dodecahedron.

I guess they ( Plato and Aristotle ) considered aether as idea NOT material.

Back to our 5th state of matter. I'm not sure what Einstein was referring to as field? But could an electromagnetic field be considered matter? And if so would it be a 5th state?

Best to all,

Pat
  
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