THE 5th ELEMENT

[Profpat]

The ancient Greeks had 5 fundamental elements;

--------Greek elements--------States of matter----

---------AIR-----------------------GAS--------------

---------WATER-------------------LIQUID-----------

---------EARTH--------------------SOLID-----------

---------FIRE----------------------PLASMA----------

---------AETHER------------------ETHER???????????

My question: IS ETHER OUR 5th STATE OF MATTER?

[sillysally]

Is ether more than one of the other elements combined? Like rust on a solid piece of metal? Then ether would be a part of the aging process.

[neutralino]

It depends what you mean by "ether"

[Profpat]

I heard from gravitational waves, electromagnetic fields, quantum foam, all the above, none of the above.

Hey wait a minute that was my question.

[Profpat]

OK I just lifted this from RP's thread below;

"...Descarte was not so far from the truth when he believed he must exclude the existence of an empty space. The notion indeed appears absurd as long as physical reality is seen exclusively in ponderable bodies. It requires the idea of the field as the representative of reality, in combination with the General Principle of Relativity, to show the true kernel of Descarte's idea, 'there exists no space empty of field'." - Einstein, p.p.375 - 6, IDEAS & OPINIONS.

So maybe field

[neutralino]

You mean like attributing an energy to the vacuum? If so, then your thinking is rather main-stream here (what you are thinking of is called dark energy by cosmologists).

If not then, sorry, I appear to have misunderstood you.

[Profpat]

I don't even know what I'm refering to Neutralino.

Sorry Back.

[RascalPuff]

I don't even know what I'm refering to Neutralino.

Sorry Back.

Hey Prof:
You may be referring to 'ether' (aether) as the (quasi mysterious) conductor of all transient energy (and whatever other signals) through space...

Best regards,
- RP

[Profpat]

I could be RP;

Maybe a better way to word it. IS THERE A 5th STATE OF MATTER?

Best to all,

Pat

P.S. Thanks for the quote RP

[Profpat]

Well maybe I can't equate aether to ether. A little Wiki research yielded this;

According to ancient and medieval science, Aether (Greek αἰθήρ, aithēr[1]), also spelled ether, is the material that fills the region of the universe above the terrestrial sphere. Aristotle included it as a fifth element distinct from the other four, Earth, Water, Air, and Fire. Plato and Aristotle referred to Aether as "Idea", and in this sense, it may be regarded as that which exists outside the material world (i.e. thought processes, mathematical algorithms, etc.). Aether was also called quintessence (from quinta essentia, "fifth element"). Quintessence was also thought to be heavenly, i.e. not of the material world (matter). Quintessence was also said to have the power of life. Its Platonic solid was the dodecahedron.

I guess they ( Plato and Aristotle ) considered aether as idea NOT material.

Back to our 5th state of matter. I'm not sure what Einstein was referring to as field? But could an electromagnetic field be considered matter? And if so would it be a 5th state?

Best to all,

Pat