Could an explanation of a Universal Law of everything be a Pandora's box?

[r.p.bibra]

“I wholeheartedly support Gregs definition of individuals functioning in a civilized society, which is why I put my thanks under his post. Greg and I do not meet eye to eye on lots of things but on this issue we do.

According to Greg's definition I do not see this rule of do as you would be done by evident in the workings of our society.”

ls concurs with Mikal’s above contention. Love&regards.ls

[SB_UK]

Can somebody explain whether there's a (logical) disagreement or misunderstanding occurring within this and Arthur's previous thread?

Confused -
- if it were only possible to list out our differences.

The question which might thereafter arise -
is whether we're programmed to seek discord.

Are we programmed ? to veer away from agreement?

Suggestion
That this'd (seemingly paradoxically) prove an effective mechanism of driving convergence.

Why?

• We're constrained to logical argument (constrained into making sense).
• If we're (at least initially) constrained away from convergence -
  - then when we (finally) agree upon a convergent viewpoint
  - we'll know that it's the globally most stable solution to the problem.

Which problem?

The problem which man has been set appears to be to understand the world around.
The problem which we have been set (the purpose of mind)
- is to reach a convergent mechanistic understanding of the world around (even if that, especially if that understanding proves the existence of an 'unknowable' construct).

In Lloyd Gillespie's recent thread on 'East meets West'
- he mentions the Eastern, Western (religion) and Scientific traditions 'take' on reality.

He describes the Eastern approach being towards one~mind, the Western towards one~creator and Science pointing towards one~substance underlying reality.

Exactly as MJA writes -

one~and the same.

~*~

In this post, I'm attempting to raise the question that we've been tasked with reaching a convergent viewpoint on reality with an initial mindset which strives towards 'getting us' to diverge in {opinion,strategy}
- that the divergence is simply a necessary 'trick' in allowing us to arrive at the globally most stable solution to 'the structure of reality'
- that we'll know when we're there
- if (and only if) all sides adhere to the logical method.

~*~

The problem we may (?appear to be running) run into is through an incapacity to understand this process (the mind's initial prime directive - todisagree) (specifically)
- and to attempt to win arguments using illogical, indefensible methodologies.

The problem which we'll have
(with this evolutionarily imparted drive to disagree)
is in 'getting the wrong end of the stick' and bludgeoning 'opposing' opinion to death
- in not using fair means {logical language,sense} to convey one's opinion.

This is the general outcome in our society where the richest party dictates policy; their poster campaigns indoctrinate.

Finding a moderator for this type of discussion will prove difficult.

Ultimately though, we will find that we've reached convergence -
- and that any of the seemingly irreconcilable differences which we appear to be observing on threads such as these are simply the result of the frailty (I think therefore I disagree)
- the 'frailty' (as it needs to be) of the initial mindset of man
- alongside the criminal nature of words.

The criminal nature of words?
The same words can easily be made to mean quite the opposite 'thing'.

~*~

Reminded of a common choice of signature on forum -
'we see things as we are and not as they are'

quote attributable to at least two or three people it seems

- must mean it's 'dead' good.

~*~

A general question

Are the guys here willing to reach a convergent viewpoint -?-
that is (after all) what the Theory of Everything implies.

If we realise the importance in convergence -
- and *importantly* our mind's nature (part of its construction) in fearing convergence
- then we stand a chance of real-izing ToE.

It's that icky/sickening feeling we get when we think about the supposedly squidgy idea of 'brotherhood of man' followed by all of those people we really do quite despise and would rather have nothing to do with ... ... ...

~*~

I have a suspicion from Robert's:After we die? thread that (and from David Maes) comments
- the fear of physical death has been intertwined (mistaken for) the fear of ego death

- and that the fear of convergence is driving the ego to fear its own death
- a fear which we're mistakingly believing to be driving our own fear of physical death.

~*~

Programmed to disagree ?
An intrinsic fear of ToE which gives us the illusion that we'd rather die than surrender*

* if you know what I mean ... ... ..

... ... where we're all pretty much offering opinions which're consistent with one another
- the diversity of opinion offered as agreement veiled as disagreement as evidence that we've done our job**

** fulfilled the prime directive

in the presence of not quite insurmountable odds.

[SB_UK]

Does anybody here actually want ToE?

Because if anybody here does -
- we're going to need to wake up to the problem which we face.

The problem which we face is a misplaced fear in our own 'redundancy' upon realization of ToE.

Yes - redundancy -
- but not in a downbeat, dull 'I'm so useless I wanna' die kinda' way'

- instead liberating -
- ToE gives us
(.=.=.:.-.D.(.-.;.=.=.)n
wings.

[SB_UK]

OK - so what's ToE?

Well ... ... MJA 'says' it best.

A quiet moment if you will.

(yes, a sharp pain in the Bottom Lander -
but sadly poor sweet Bottom

alas poor Bottom
he
is
right)

one == truth

Can somebody buy him an organic lettuce bar?

[SB_UK]

one == truth

- alongside the mechanism by which
one [unknowable]
becomes
one [real]
becomes
more than one [real]


God -> Mary -> Jesus

God - one
Mary - duals with God, the virgin birth
Jesus - the next generation is seeded
Mary II - nearly
Sarah - seed

~*~

Unity
- one 'unknowable' God

Duality
- (male-female) unity

Trinity
- (male + female) -> male (or female)[as above]

... ... ... where the terms unity, duality and trinity are read as mathematical geometric dualities.

~*~

oh my - reality can't be that easy.

We're really gonna' be kickin' ourselves here; but don't be sweatin' or nothin' - 'cos we'll work with you on this.

[SB_UK]

(.=.=.:.-.D.(.-.;.=.=.)n


aaaarghhhhhhhhh!

What follows is obvious

The high rate of divorce in the Western world (where education levels are highest) may be understood by the union which occurs between man and woman

- the union which occurs which results in ego death

as mind develops

- the fear of ego death preventing both parties from losing themselves in one another.

The high divorce rate is accounted for by the minds of man and woman separating their relationship through the fear which comes with loss of ego (self) upon duality formation

- duality formation being required
- the precursor step which occurs prior to crystallization of dualities into a single all-encompassing structure (within which we desire to form a part)

~*~

We thereby arrive at an understanding of why the formation of one community of man ('brotherhood of man', the love which Jesus describes) requires duality between partners and education.

The process occurs as follows

birth + proper education leads to development of duals which may bond
duals lose their 'self' (ego) at duality
male + female -> (male-female)
(male-female) then crystallizes

(male-female)n

==



->-

(male-female)n

[SB_UK]

- the combination of sharp o-> and flat o+ (from musical notation)

male - female duality (everted opposites)

which gives rise to the phrase 'let's make sweet music together, baby'

~*~

ToE just keeps on comin' ... ... ...

the extraction of music from computer generated fractal imagery

Any image which represents a real and imaginary component - can be represented in musical form.

The note sharp and note flat representing the two domains of a complex entity.

[SB_UK]

- the combination of sharp o-> and flat o+ (from musical notation)

... ... either that or the other way around screechmiaowwwgrrrrwoof


small unfeasibly cute puddywabbit cat which looks just like my wife.

[labelwench]

The seasons change, a new day dawns, here in Yukon...

Reasons change, man evolves, towards a new way of thinking,

About our place in the greater picture....

With apologies, Arthur, I offer an image instead of discussion this day.

Your thoughts, and those of the other posters, I continue to follow with interest....

[SteveA]

(.=.=.:.-.D.(.-.;.=.=.)n


aaaarghhhhhhhhh!

What follows is obvious

The high rate of divorce in the Western world (where education levels are highest) may be understood by the union which occurs between man and woman

- the union which occurs which results in ego death

as mind develops

- the fear of ego death preventing both parties from losing themselves in one another.

The high divorce rate is accounted for by the minds of man and woman separating their relationship through the fear which comes with loss of ego (self) upon duality formation

- duality formation being required
- the precursor step which occurs prior to crystallization of dualities into a single all-encompassing structure (within which we desire to form a part)

~*~

We thereby arrive at an understanding of why the formation of one community of man ('brotherhood of man', the love which Jesus describes) requires duality between partners and education.

The process occurs as follows

birth + proper education leads to development of duals which may bond
duals lose their 'self' (ego) at duality
male + female -> (male-female)
(male-female) then crystallizes

(male-female)n

==



->-

(male-female)n

I think you might even find the equivalent of different sexes but in temperments, abilities and attitudes - one of my best friends is in many ways quite different from me, but we "synergized" - he had wanted to learn to use computers and had an "inner geek" (yes, and gamer ) that needed nurturing, though he was very outgoing and loved being the center of attention and drag people out to parties etc. (It's generally hard to get me to a party, or social gathering but once I'm there it's also hard to get me to leave ).

Anyway, there are just lots of ways like this in which personalities and abilities mesh in complimentary ways beyond male/female and it might even be that there's a "hidden order" to this as well, though it seems like binary compliments are most efficient.

Notice for example, that even greed can be productive (not to the extent it goes beyond avarice and becomes theft from someone else or a destructive influence to others) - I personally wouldn't want to have such cravings, but notice that avarice/greed is actually quite motivating - if we look at the complimentary side we have something rather sedated (and likely impoverished). Well, as long as we're still human then stomachs become empty and some level of "hunger" appears unavoidable, unless someone simply dies of starvation (and I think we can do better than that ).

But someone who has very strong cravings for various physical things, cannot fulfill all these desires solely by themself - if they want a nice car, then they either have to make one themself or try to exchange value with someone else to acquire it. It's not only almost impossible for someone to have all the abilities to satisfy their own needs (unless they have few and those needs are simple - which is what I tend to prefer, but still there needs to be some change/grow and it's not really ideal for everyone to try to live on the bare minimums ... and nature can always toss in some problems that make such conditions precarious).

Anyway, ideally everyone could be satisfied with physical conditions, though realistically some people would not be likely to fulfill all their desires, but that can be more of an internal issue/problem that needs to be resolved and not really a physical problem.

But history tends to show the picture that when such places and times arise they don't last too long and I think that's largely for two reasons 1) you have greed and jealousy from "outside" that instead of learning and emulating prosperous recipes decide to plunder for short term gain but ultimately everyone loses and 2) you also have ignorance that such structures can be centrally managed and controlled and that individuals can "wield" the power of this structure - this ends up placing "narrow sighted" and artificially impeding restrictions on the system. People can only see a few rungs along the ladder and noone can manage the details of the entire structure. I think both governments and religions are similar in this respect - people don't generally have enough free time to mess with government and religion until their stomachs are full, so the default mode in less than plentiful times is to ignore the large social picture and stick to the family, friends and figurative "farm" and then things recover, until the stomach's full, but the mind is not and the ignorance remains and the same structures arise that once again drag things down until people are back in the mud again. It was actually doing what they did naturally that caused the growth.

I don't think it's actually very hard at all to have very comfortable and prosperous conditions in a community/society. The largest problem is in keeping the wolves outside and the social diseases inside from taking down the herd once it begins to grow and multiply. But these naturally attract more people and instill a desire to emulate those successes by others by simply doing and being what you naturally want, though I wish I had better suggestions for the wolves and the cancer. The cancer isn't so hard to handle - you simply allow people to separate and the cancer can't support itself and culturally dies off - when bad ideas fail enough and people are left with noone else to blame but themselves then "the school of hard knocks" has been completed In the case of the wolves though it's not as easy and it appears that physical defense is a possible unavoidable cost - though if you make the "cost of doing business" for wolves quite high (notice that it already goes up once members in the wolve pack realize they're in a losing industry , and they tend to eat each other, but you've got to keep from feeding them) and that "profession" is discouraged. Of course as always this (ideally defensive) force is the fire that ends up usually burning everything down but I personally haven't found a magic cure for wolves, but most of the problem goes away once you've managed to keep them off your back for a while (and then you have to avoid the lethargy/apathy/forgetting that tends to set in once things have gone well for a while and the weather is nice - that's just human nature)