[subversion]

Figuring out a TOE is just like figuring out a big cosmic riddle. Barring laughter, this riddle may be the calling of the human race, the much sought after "meaning of life" that philosophers have always pondered.

It is the purpose of this thread to argue that the cosmic riddle can be boiled down to one simple question. How did the universe start?

The big bang, as it is called, confounds our insipid minds; we seem aghast when considering the prospect of actually conceiving the concept. The big bang itself is an act of God, if you will, so we would do much to elucidate its mechanism.

The problem should be approached like a riddle. As many have stated on this board, all the cards are out, we have all the pieces of the puzzle we need, we just have to fit it together. All it takes is a good guess.

But before I start preaching I want to know people's opinion. Is the question of how the universe started, once answered, the cornerstone to the TOE? Do you think if somebody guessed how the universe started that all other conclusions would follow?

[Guille]

hi sub,

I voted that yes, how the universe started is a cornerstone of the TOE. I would have prefereded that you wrote a more general thing, like "The begining, life and end of the universe is a cornerstone of the TOE" Because then I would have been more sure of the yes. Or even say that "Cosmology is a cornerstone of the TOE".

For me, there are 5 cornerstones of the TOE (for a TOE in physics!):

COSMOLOGY
FORCES
ENERGY
MATTER
FUNDAMENTAL PARTICLES

So, the big (Cosmology); the small (Fundamental Particles); the medium-big (Forces); the medium-medium (Energy); and the medium-small (Matter).

[dleviwing]

subversion;
Knowing circumstances of the true event that produced the universe is a consequence of TOE. If you know the cause of the universe, you already know TOE.

The puzzle contains two sets of pieces. One set provided by nature and another created by mankind. Mankind's pieces number into the millions where as natures pieces number only 4. Guess who's pieces are being used as the "Standard Model".

Natures pieces consist of "the Void", "Matter", "Bonding", and "Motion".

The Void …. The apparent infinite boundless cosmos.
Matter …….. The only physical entity existing in the cosmos.
Bonding ...… One of two fundamental properties of Matter.
Motion ……. The only other property of Matter.

Motion is the secret to the TOE. Contrary to our current perceptions, The motion quantity of matter is fixed. Motion of a physical system can only be redistributed throughout the system as different types of motion. (uniform or random)

The scenario having the greatest probability as the cause of the start of the universe is that of a collision between quantities of fundamental matter in their greatest state of density (solid fundamental matter). This collision did not cause this substance to explode into smaller pieces, but only to convert uniform motion to chaotic wave vibrations throughout the substance that resulted in this substance expanding and interacting to form what we observe today.

Is your concept any simpler than this???? Or are you still trying to use the manmade puzzle pieces (temperature, force, gravity, charge, mass, energy, etc.) to create your scenario?

Do you think the human race has earned the right to know?

ps: I like your puzzle riddle approach; I think I'll use it in my book. (Thanks)

[Bob Campbell]

The problem with a beginning to the universe is that it presumes a causal origin in space-time. This prescribes that space-time are a priori when in fact they are a posteriori concepts derived from creation after the fact. The origin of space and time themselves must be answered and this obviously cannot be done in terms of concepts that are inconceivable before a beginning. The evidence for a big bang still hinges on very flimsy evidence. There may be alternate explanations for both red-shift and background radiation.

Originally Posted by subversion Figuring out a TOE is just like figuring out a big cosmic riddle. Barring laughter, this riddle may be the calling of the human race, the much sought after "meaning of life" that philosophers have always pondered. It is the purpose of this thread to argue that the cosmic riddle can be boiled down to one simple question. How did the universe start? The big bang, as it is called, confounds our puny minds; we seem aghast when considering the prospect of actually figuring it out. The big bang itself is an act of God, so we would do muchto elucidate its mechanism. The problem should be approached like a riddle. As many have stated on this board, all the cards are out, we have all the pieces of the puzzle we need, we just have to fit it together. All it takes is a good guess, a guess I have made. But before I start preaching I want to know people's opinion. Is the question of how the universe started, once answered, the cornerstone to the TOE? Do you think if somebody guessed how the universe started that all other conclusions would follow?

[subversion]

sorry it took me a while to respond. Guille I guess what I'm asking is, do you think that a full understanding of cosmology would bring about or entail a full understanding in the other things you mentioned? ps. how do you decide if forces are bigger than energy or matter (in regards to your medium-medium, medium small classification system)?

dleviwing, Yes, I believe my concept is simpler. Do you think the human race has earned the right to know? That's a profoundly good question! No personal offense meant to any individual humans, but no, to tell you the truth, I don't think they have earned the right. Or perhaps it is our "leaders" who have earned us the state of merit which we now enjoy. - admittedly - we do preserve and contain that state, like precious little canning jars. That state of merit I speak of? Nothing. Perhaps a small something, but not enough.

Let me ask you this. If someone gave something to you and said "here, take this, and your species will live forever. Take this and no matter what happens, no matter what planet explodes or what universes expand, your people will always endure." Then would you care to save the planet? Would you rescue the earth from overpopulation and destruction if you didn't need too? Would you preserve the only known source of natural life? As a museum specimen?


thanks.

[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by subversion Let me ask you this. If someone gave something to you and said "here, take this, and your species will live forever. Take this and no matter what happens, no matter what planet explodes or what universes expand, your people will always endure." Then would you care to save the planet? Would you rescue the earth from overpopulation and destruction if you didn't need too? Would you preserve the only known source of natural life? As a museum specimen?

Sub;
I would destroy whatever that something was and the one offering it.

[Guille]

Sub,

I took a while to answer because I've been off. It is a very hard question you ask me, I'll try to explain.

Cosmology is about the very very big, the biggest, if we include macrouniverses in it. Forces comes next because it affects anywhere anytime that it is possible for there to be field, which is everywhere. Energy goes next because it is everywhere that there is an entity: if there is either force or matter, there si energy. Then matter, because it is in many places, but there are palces where there are forces and no matter, and energy and no matter, but if there is matter there si always energy and forces. Fundamental particles is the smallest, tat's why it's last (it doesn't only refer to matter, also particles of force, energy, dimensions....).

I hope that the paragraphs explains the following: Force, energy and amtter are in that order because of abundance, not size.