[subversion]

They would rather believe their own lies. Woe is he who knows the theory of everything, he will be the loneliest man ever, for though the TOE may be logically sound, scientifically forthbringing, indeed true, people will refuse to believe it, as part of their natural adversity to the truth and as part of their lack of humility (which is also a lack of reverance). Resentment, ostracism, ridicule, doubt, all things will result, save for understanding amongst the discoverer and his enlightenees. I know that the TOE is touchy, but you don't have to find it offensive! What would you do if you were the one chosen to bear the truth? Would you go crazy if you didn't know for sure you were right, but you believed you were, and you couldn't find out from other people because they were predisposed to tell you you were wrong no matter what, because they believed in nothing? What kind of society gives rise to this awkward social atmosphere? What would you do in the face of blind opposition, defensive ignorance, and imminent jealousy, when it begins to impede the natural evolution of thought, and the progress of mankind. There is not even a word to describe how much humans fear and resist the ultimate change, which involves changing their mindset and the world they live in as well. Never give up I say!

Bless this forum, for it represents the last vestige of hope, quite possibly the last hiding ground for those who ever dreamed, who ever had an idea, and who wanted to share it, not with one person, but with the world! I wrote an essay once in midschool called "My Vision of Tomorrow's World" and it involved the internet giving the world a chance for unity. Hats off to you Robert, you've done a good thing. We questers represent the best that mankind has to offer, and I don't think anyone can disagree to that!

So back to the matter at hand. Have you ever felt pitted against? Have you ever felt alienated, and alone? Have you ever felt like the world was stupid? Please share your experiences, and I will share mine. What would you do if you were the one chosen to bear the truth? Would you feel overwhelmed, and how would you go about that feeling?

[force5]

Hi Sub;

I think many people can understand your frustration. I think most people have there own adjenta just as you do and are more interested in proposals than spending the necessary time required to evaluate others ideas and offer constructive input to further ones understanding in the specifics of the task at hand.

Be patient and learn from others. Be ready to provide sound justification for your work and ignore those who offer rejection without justification for their critizism.

Two things i've been working on for most of my life: "tolerance" and "patience"

I know I should work on my spelling but I'm to lazy.

John

[Guille]

Great theme, sub.

But I don't really think exactly like you. We say that we really don't like having or hearing the truth. This is bcause the truth, is bad. Many people think that the concepts of truthness/falsity are equivalent to good/bad or correct/in-correct. But no, they are 3 independent disasiciated themes. Now, when i say trth is bad, is not that truth it self is bad, for truth itself is a concept, and thus, it cannot act independently in any manner, either positivelly or negativelly. It is the minds inwhich the concept of truth is collected, where truth becomes bad. If I recieve this morning the news from apoloicman that my mother has died, then I will strongly believe the truth to "BE" bad. Actually, I would believe it to be false. This is another error: as we wrongly tend to give goodness-badness characteristics to truthness-falsiness, then this leads to other wrong colcusions, like the fact that one, either truth-false is the other one, because it is either bad or good. What I basically mean is that truth is something we believe we don't want to know. But in the end, we do want to know truth. It is in our pure most instinctive nature. We created science, philosophy and mathematics for that. It is actually a main prupose in life, to acheive truth.

And althugh I agree that probably the very "true real correct good theory of everything" will be neglected by many, not only scineitists, but by society, it will eventually be accepted, as much as it gives enough empricial and rational basis. You see, I don't believe there is one unique toe. I believe there will be one unque toe. But there are many possibilities of arriving to it, different, and their explenations are different, but, in the end, we will arrive to the most logical and simple one we can find out.

And, if in any case people wouldn¡t want to hear the truth, then, why id people accept Einstein's theory of special relativity in 1905?

[volantis]

I understand quite well where you are coming from. For the past three and a half years I have been developing a mathematical, empirically based TOE. It didn't start that way, but it turned out that way. My main concern was protecting my ideas, which I was certain someone would steal and call their own. Little did I know! Even after writing a full length book describing the theory in detail, I still have a hard time convincing people.

I have PhD physicists reading the book. They find no error at all in the mathematics, and the data is all correctly referenced. But because I put the data together into a different form than they do, they can't believe I'm right. I've had people accuse me of things like "data fitting" and using outdated terms like "Aether." A few people have complimented me on the theory, but then I don't hear from them again.

It isn't just me, but everyone who reads and studies the theory is also shunned. There is no rational reason for it, and yet nobody questions why it should be this way. If the theory works, why isn't it being looked into in greater detail?

I was under the illusion that science was impartial and willing to investigate any reasonable theory. It turns out that science has been taken over by a religious attitude of its own, complete with a clergy, institutions, and dogma. Science has little to do with math and data and much to do with career, budgets, and reputation.

Having studied religion for many years, I am not surprised or unprepared. It is lonely and it is a challenge to face the world one on. Fortunately, I have just the personality for doing this. My happiness comes from within, not from recognition, wealth, or job security. It will take many years to puncture the enormous, overinflated ego of the scientific establishment. But it can be done, one day at a time.

Robert's dedication to this forum is just amazing. I think we are all witnessing the birth of a new institution through his efforts. One of the most important resources for developing a TOE will be to have a dedicated and focussed community. TOE Quest is a real world example of, "If you build it, they will come."

The magnitude of our obstacles are only eclipsed by the magnitude of our efforts to overcome them. How could it be any other way? Those individuals and communities who did not overcome their obstacles have fallen by the wayside. We will succeed in developing a Theory of Everything. We have to.

[Guille]

Interesting post, very itneresting, volantis.

I agree that it seems that sciencists are colsed to new thoeries. But remember, science itsel fis nto closed at all, science is open to a TOE, you can see that by the fact that it is easy to conclude, after having some knowledge of science, that something is missing, and that is, the "principle".

It is the individuals, the scientist, hho are close dto new theories. They have been 100 years, now, exactly, developing their view of everything, and, they believe, they are correct, not only tha,t but they believe that from what they know now, they caqn directly develop the principle but that isn't true. It's te same as when Newton's theory was started to be disagreed in particular subjects off new theories, and finally when Maxwell dvelop his electromagnetic theory. Around a third of a decade later, little Einstein made his even-more-than-maxwell's revolutionary theory. But since then, we have nto revolutioned any mor,e and it si clearly the momnent to start running for this revolution, which will lead to the the TOE.

Now, you say that we "have to" acheive the TOE. What tells you this? I think it's just your basic belief. I think that we WILL acheive a TOE, but not because we "must to" because any supernatural or moral/implicational cause, and not because we "have to" because it's something we exist for/to, or has to be done for good, I believe we will arrive to the TOE because of the simple reason that we are able to think about it, and thus, now, I quote my most admired Wittgenstein: "If it is possible to think about it, it is possible to exist". Now, if we can create a problem, it has to be taht we can solve it, for if not our minds could not have made the whole theme.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by volantis It is lonely and it is a challenge to face the world one on.

I often felt the same way. Our differences lie in the fact that you concentrate on the empirical points of view supported by mathematics, while in my case I concentrated more on the conceptual bases of accepted physical concepts: force, energy, mass and charge. Now, I am stuck with this conceptual development of square of energy.

[volantis]

Originally Posted by <<Guille>> Now, you say that we "have to" acheive the TOE. What tells you this?

I had actually said...

Originally Posted by <<Volantis>> We will succeed in developing a Theory of Everything. We have to.

I was stating that we have to succeed, although that would imply succeeding at developing a TOE. What's the point of making the effort if we are not going to succeed?

As for whether finding a TOE or not is just my belief, I have actually presented a successful TOE. At least, it is successful in the sense that the physics is there, even if it isn't being looked at seriously.

[volantis]

Originally Posted by AntonioLao Now, I am stuck with this conceptual development of square of energy.

What do you hope your concept will achieve? How far have you developed it?

[Guille]

Originally Posted by volantis I was stating that we have to succeed, although that would imply succeeding at developing a TOE. What's the point of making the effort if we are not going to succeed? As for whether finding a TOE or not is just my belief, I have actually presented a successful TOE. At least, it is successful in the sense that the physics is there, even if it isn't being looked at seriously.

From this post I see that you are a conclusion-reductionst. According to you, what gives value io something is it's end, how it finishes. Well, that is wrong, in my opinion, because you can try something and although you haven't succeded, you ahve always learned many things, and atleast you have gained experiences that help you.

Yes, I knwo your TOE is succesfull, I have read the ""summarizing"" paper article. It has math, physics and philsophy. It is indeed correct, as you described in your other post, but, for what is it correct? It is correct for itself. The problem is that theories have to be open systems, for the fact that there are several, and that makes them to have to be correct tot he general idea, not only for themselves.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by volantis How far have you developed it?

I am developing it into a theory of spacetime quantization and one of the results that I was able to get out of it is the calculated mass ratio of proton and electron within 1% discrepancy of the experimental value.