[michellemfry]

What if time were a force of order? Disorder, the anti-force, or stabilizer to the force. Would there be any significant change in physics to consider such a thing? In this view, disorder is a positive quantity. I'm not sure what it is now.
Would anyone like to enter the experiment? Feel free to let your imagination go to wherever it takes you, theoretically. The wilder, the better. Create a hypothetical universe where...time is an ordered force.

[Guille]

But time is already disorder: entropy. In the case that entropy was a force, then would it be made of entropyons? I guess so. And I also believe that it would be translated through spacetime as any other force, and would constitude it's structure. In fact, I believe the entropyons would make up time in spacetime. The other three dimensions would be defined one each by: gravitons, electrons and magnetic monopoles.

I see however that the most important thing in this hypothetical universe woudl be to determine what relationhip woudl entropy as force ahve with the other forces? Maybe actually, Michelle, entropy is a force! It may sound quite strange to believe it, but it does interconnect EM and gravity: the amount of entropyons in a system/body would be determined by it's size and the density, and the density is the relationship between size and mass... bang! mass, that means connection with gravity. So gravity and entropy are directly proportional, in a constant space. But of course space is not constant, therefore we need to look at EM. DAMN! I was just about to say the part where EM enters but I've come to a problem: entropy and gravity can't be directly proportional because as mass-gravity grow, the time decreases... Therefore gravity and entropy are directly inverselly proportional. A further post will come about the place of EM in all of this, and how 'entropy as a force' might be the solution to physicists' problems!

[apuasua]

If entropy was a force, we should accept probabilistic kind forces, with considering the mathemathical expression of the entropy;



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nice debate

[Guille]

Originally Posted by apuasua If entropy was a force, we should accept probabilistic kind forces, with considering the mathemathical expression of the entropy; ------------------------- nice debate

Hummm..... 'Probabilistic forces' what could it mean? That if there is such X in Y that disposites, sort of impplies a force F, there might or might not be F, in respect to each case? This is reasoble, it would be sort of like if there is mass in 3 objects, depending on the probability, in one of them it could be that no gravity occurs... But of course, nto with the other 4 forces, just with entropy as force. So there might be entropy or not, if there is such thing as a disposition to entropy. The distposition to gravity is mass, to EM is light...etz, but what is the disposition to entropy?

[apuasua]

1) In the sense of the time is accepted as a force, Newton's Laws of Motion should be re-arrenged. But how?

For example: X = V . t
If time is a force, then the direction property of displacement vector loses its importance. Then, how could it be corrected?
And also, if you take the derivation of the displacement, it is ended with a summation of a vector and a scalar. Big problem, I think...

[harmonygirl]

michelle, I think that time is definitely a force of order, as it exists in our perception. If we didn't perceive of time as linear, then there would be no cause-effect relationship, there would be no point to deductive reasoning, because one premise would not follow another premise. I don't think time is linear or sequential for that matter, I just think that we need to perceive it as such to make sense of our own existence.

[apuasua]

Originally Posted by <<>> but what is the disposition to entropy?

Then, the answer could be the time; the disposition to entropy is the time. According to big bang, the entropy was so low, maybe just before the big bang, it was zero, so time is zero too. After the big bang, like the entropy of the universe increasing the time is also enlarges. Looks to silly?

[Guille]

Originally Posted by apuasua 1) In the sense of the time is accepted as a force, Newton's Laws of Motion should be re-arrenged. But how? For example: X = V . t If time is a force, then the direction property of displacement vector loses its importance. Then, how could it be corrected? And also, if you take the derivation of the displacement, it is ended with a summation of a vector and a scalar. Big problem, I think...

I find the whole system to strange, taht's why instead of time I prefer to use the term entropy for the time which is hypothetically a force. Not time as interval of events.

I think the big problem really is when trying to find the relationship of entropy as force with the other forces, this is hard and one cna be hours without moving (and I hate not moving: I prefer moving in thw wrong direction).

[Guille]

Originally Posted by apuasua Then, the answer could be the time; the disposition to entropy is the time. According to big bang, the entropy was so low, maybe just before the big bang, it was zero, so time is zero too. After the big bang, like the entropy of the universe increasing the time is also enlarges. Looks to silly?

And what caused exactly each other? I mean, they all started to exist at the same time (force, energy, matter, space, time...) but which impplied the other? time-->entropy or entropy-->time? And which force differentiated first and which later? Too many questions, I know... But if... If I could... I would solve all of them.

[TinyTree]

Originally Posted by michellemfry What if time were a force of order? Disorder, the anti-force, or stabilizer to the force.

I am curious: what do you define to be disorder, and order?

Entropy defines the distribution of energy (or particles) as a distribution among a set of partitions. The universe appears to always move towards a greater probaiblity distribution. This is not "disoreder" per se- just "more distributed"

The probability of the universe defines the distribution of energy (or particles) as a specific state among the set of potential states. The universe appears to move into higher and lower probability states. Neither higher nor lower probability states are more "disordered" or "ordered" per se.

How would you define disorder?