[everymansmedium]

It appears that there is a gap between the reality of the physical measurement and the more basic reality of the awareness of self. There is no way to measure the more basic reality yet none can deny it’s existence as even more sure than the physical measurement, for your measurement could be a dream. However the experience of self is real even if it is a dream, the state makes no difference to the existence of the awareness of self for that would only indicate the position and state of this awareness, not its existence.

The following experiment is a thought to bridge this gap.

This is an experiment in the ability to reason beyond the ability to measure by adding a method to follow when it is not possible to take a measurement. However hopefully this may lead us to thoughts that we can again go to the normal scientific method to cover those parts that can be done by this method.

The beginning of understanding comes only with the realization that there are only 2 methods of learning new things that are possible.
These methods are:
#1: Documentation of the results of trial and error.
This is the basis of the measurement system.

The scientific method is a discipline of data collection and interpretation.
The scientific method begins here with (logical reasoning)
If a hypotheses can predict the outcome of a trial and error experience (measurement), the hypotheses then becomes the basis for an experiment that can be repeated at any site by any number of people at any time. This then elevates the hypotheses to become a theory.

#2: The recognition of a pattern of behavior.
Within the documented results of trial and error.

A speculation of the existence of a pattern of behavior may be formed. This speculation is called a hypotheses and is the result of logical reasoning.

Mankind has tried to understand this existence medium we experience sense pre history.
The method that has been used is the scientific method based on a discipline of collecting data and verifying the concept by predicting the outcome of a physical measurement and then verifying the prediction with a measurements at multiple places by multiple people to generate a theory.

A Theory Of Everything. (TOE): A theory that has the answers to all of the questions that may be posed by the process of logical reasoning. A universal field theory is not a necessary part of this theory. Though it may have logical explanations why this is not necessary to the ability to depict a complete TOE.

The Unified Field theory. (UFT): A theory that unifies all of the principals of all of the known forces to a single specific equation. This is a mathematical endeavor complete with a basis in the ability to predict a specific result and a verification by way of a standardized measurement system. This when complete may not result with a complete TOE.

This method has produced all of the abilities to generate the technical advantages that we now experience. It however has not been able to produce a theory of everything or a unified field theory. I feel that the reason for this is the system of measurements that is required is the limiting factor that is making this result not possible. If there is a gap or leap of either space or time between our existence medium and its cause, this will result in the inability of this system to ever determine what is beyond this gap. What I propose is to do an examination of the very basis of those parts of this existence medium that are not only the most important but also the most certain of all information. This has not been done because it is impossible to do using the system of measurement that has unraveled the obvious physical attributes of this place. I say obvious because these are the things that can be measured. There is nothing more certain to all individuals than “I AM”. This is the awareness of self, the consciousness, the being. Though this is the most important and most certain of all data, it is also the most difficult to understand. It does not release any of its attributes to your measurement instruments, yet you still know it is there.
What I am proposing is to use a system of logical reasoning, that is the same as is used in the development of any or all concepts whether they be physical backed by measurements, or philosophical based only on logical reasoning. Where there is the ability to use a measurement system, then the logical reasoning may be somewhat complex but still agreed upon buy many. When the measurement system is not available then it is my contention that the logical reasoning be kept to the most basic and specific content, to be agreed upon by (Some numerical percentage that we may decide upon as realistic.) This is to bridge the gap between the ability to measure and those things that we can not touch but know for certain that they are there.
John.

[MJA]

Hi John,

I am glad to see that you recognize measure as the problem.
That truly is what it is.
For me, to practice life without the flaw of measure, although difficult at times,
has lead me to the nature's simple truth of equality.
Unfortunately we live in a world of inequity, created by ourselves;
the solution is simply to equate.
The rich must give to the poor.
Equality is the solution, not just between men, but all things.
Unity via equality is TOE..
Keep up the good work.

=
MJA

[everymansmedium]

The following paragraph indicates where my mind was before March 27 1970.

We do not know what is the truth now. We did not know what the truth was when the primary religious books were written.

We can neither support fully nor can we remove fully the concepts that make up these thoughts that are of a religious nature. Please understand that I have not forgotten about the people that hold the ideas of religion with their endless faith. To you I say to hold your faith, but please understand the rules of unity and diversity. Each religion brings with it both unity and diversity. If you seek to focus on your diversity you follow the road to war. If you seek to find your similarities you travel down the road to peace.


There is the thought that when we became wise enough to learn that we would one day die, we begin to search for a way around the inevitable end of life.
There is also the search for an idea be it magic or any other super natural ways to explain the phenomena around us that we could not yet understand.

This is the basis of the discussion about divine intervention that makes the subject appear as nothing more than a solution for comfort and peace of mind. But in so doing it also makes possible
the ideas and concepts that have been twisted to be used for political power. They have been used to control the population toward many ends, some of these are of a good nature, some of these are no more than a method of enslavement. These concepts through out time has lead to continuous wars, oppression of peoples and general separation of mankind from a truth that could unify us. The thought of no God appears to dissolve the differences between mankind and gives us all one thing in common, LIFE. The ideas of religions are many as they are controlled by the imagination and can result in many ideas that are not based on truth. These many ideas will lead to many groups of people that are willing to fight for these ideas. If they all give up all these different ideas and accept LIFE as the truth we have in common. This will lead to a unity of mankind. As the truth is LIFE and BEING.


Logical reasoning. The value of logical reasoning as used in philosophy to be a parallel to the scientific method. However the scientific method can not always be used as a method of verification in all places. It is suggested that we use this when it is possible to do so yet to continue to complete a logical reasoning system that may be verified at points where it is possible to do so. However when it is necessary to proceed without the verification of the scientific method, we must keep the logical reasoning to be of an extremely basic nature and to be for the most part universally accepted reasoning.

This is where we must begin. I will start this thought at this point with a look at the existing laws for the determination of the existance of a force and a proposed law as applied to a being. We begin with an examination of what a being might be and what laws might govern this.


Note the similarities in the laws of a being and the laws of the existence of a force. Either of these motivational factors can be considered as the cause of an action, within the theory of determinism.

The laws of a force.................... Must be apparent...... Must be constant.


The proposed laws of being........Awareness of self.........Motivation..



John

[MJA]

And that John is the beauty of this forum.
We are on the road or quest to unify everything.
How great is our cause?
And what better cause can their be?

=
MJA

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by MJA Hi John, I am glad to see that you recognize measure as the problem. That truly is what it is. For me, to practice life without the flaw of measure, although difficult at times, has lead me to the nature's simple truth of equality. Unfortunately we live in a world of inequity, created by ourselves; the solution is simply to equate. The rich must give to the poor. Equality is the solution, not just between men, but all things. Unity via equality is TOE.. Keep up the good work. = MJA

Thank you for your support, but now I will ask you and all to participate in the thought brought out in the next post. John

[Profpat]

Hi John and MJA;

My question is for you MJA regarding your statement;
" The rich must give to poor "

I guess I would prefer SHOULD give to the poor.

I'm all for the economic objective of the redistribution of wealth.

However to FORCE any one just goes against my nature. Additionally I believe " FOR YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE POOR WITH YOU ".

Also if we were to GIVE it to the poor would they think they did anything to contribute to society as to earn it?

How long do you think it would take for the productive people in our society to get it all back again.

I'm all for charity, but that's voluntary, and making people do it takes away that blessing that both the giver and receiver receive.

Finally, some people like being poor, and some others that, don't are perhaps drug addicts, etc.

Again please don't get this message wrong. I think every human being is ENTITLED to FOOD, CLOTHING, SHELTER, MEDICAL CARE, and our deepest LOVE and RESPECT.

Just my thoughts,

Best to you and John,

Pat

[MJA]

Your thoughts are as fair as always Professor.

Doing what is right is a must not a should.
And equality is rightfully the natural balance or truth.
Truth then is rightfully a must too.
Humanity hasn't learned the truth yet, but I think it will have to soon.

=
MJA

[Profpat]

MJA;

IF YOU WERE GOD WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY OUR FREE WILL?

Best Pat

[N0B0DY]

If the choices to be made are already known, there is no such thing as free will to god; and, besides, once you choose to jump off of a cliff, you're not free to choose not to.

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by N0B0DY If the choices to be made are already known, there is no such thing as free will to god; and, besides, once you choose to jump off of a cliff, you're not free to choose not to.

Nice attempt to avoid the question Nobody, but is that a yes or a no. ( For the sake of the question assume we have free will and you are on the stand and the judge and jury just want a simple yes or no to the answer ) I'll start to help you out.NO

Best to all,

Pat