[Graybeard]

~~~ Space, Time & Einstein ~~~

If we accept General relativity, and its implications of space and time dilation ... then we must also conclusively accept that the past, present and future exist in this universe at the same moment ...

All past present and future events are here now ... their only measurable difference being human perception of motion ...

Now we are told that the 'distortion' of Spacetime is only apparent at speeds approaching light speed or alternatively, at vast distances. But surely we can measure it at any speed or distance ? In other words, any and all movement, must distort Spacetime, however small that movement is ?

Now for my 'brainstorming' question.

All thats moving in relation to us, cars on the street, trees in the wind, the hair on our head blowing in the wind, the wind itself, our arm as we strike a home run .... must, in some sense be moving slightly into the future, or alternatively, the past. Our body and all around us must only be synchronised when we are 'still' in relation to our selves and our surroundings. ?

In other words if we could freeze frame our surroundings so that only the present were visible, then the only parts visible would be the parts that were in the same still state as the observer ? Would our arm swinging the baseball bat be visible, or only return to our view once the home run had been hit, would roads be empty of all traffic ?. (Of course this is impossible as Nobody pointed out, if time was frozen, light would be frozen and we would receive no light at all.)

Is it possible that our 'esse' is in some sense not just in the present but in a wider band bounded by our motion. Are we spread or smeared or 'Bell-curved' across a small amount (or even all) of the past-future with the immediate present being the mythical mid position from which we presume to take our 'base' measurements?

Or are there simply billions of Graybeards, perish the thought, all acting in near-unison in parrallel universes and our 'esse' is just a condensed persona of them all ... LOL

If I'm crazy, where did the craziness set in .... ??

cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by N0B0DY Nice of you to drop in, Greg. I was going to respond to your new thread, but noticed it was for private members only - o(-_-)o - so I thought I might make a few comments about it here. I'll be damned if it doesn't make my thread look tame! Seriously, though, it's very well versed and I don't want to mess it up if you're looking to go in another direction. Like Drifter and Pat have extensively covered, the present moment seems to be made up of those past-future parts with, I would propose, all baseball games already been played, but the slow mind hasn't realized it yet being stretched into the past for processing - the time dilation you referred to. I don't think the frozen moments, if speaking or thinking in absolute terms, can exist outside of the dimensional extension, which is why I propose all observable phenomena is governed by time, including space. Though the picture itself could be related to massive entities frozen in time, their intrinsic quantities and color qualities would be dependent upon inner motion, and without such motion there would be no static picture to view. I always have Lloyd's contractive mechanics in the back of my head, as well as Dave's universal laws, and my sole/soul goal is to convey at least semi-accurately the non existence of photons.

.............................

[austintorn@aol.com]

One of the near infinity of Graybeards will be immortal, always living on when the universe splits due to any event, even death.

[Graybeard]

Sorry peoples ... i didn't realise i had posted this thread in a private forum. Have PM'd Robert or Neutralino to shift it.

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com One of the near infinity of Graybeards will be immortal, always living on when the universe splits due to any event, even death.

I hope that one Graybeard is me Austin. Quantumly speaking, what are the chances ... LOL

cool bananas ... greg

[N0B0DY]

Okay, you have my input, Greg. Basically, the baseball is the result of mini bangs with its center being T=0 - frozen.

What I have been looking for is a way to transfer the info from the ball to the brain.

[Profpat]

When tranced to the eternal Here/Now there was no past, present or future. No Pat. No baseball game.
NADA. Only awareness that all is illusion.

Best to you my illusory friends,

Pat

[dipayankar]

Graybeard.. why is that from the mythical midposition, we only move forward and not backward??

Originally Posted by Graybeard ~~~ Space, Time & Einstein ~~~ If we accept General relativity, and its implications of space and time dilation ... then we must also conclusively accept that the past, present and future exist in this universe at the same moment ... All past present and future events are here now ... their only measurable difference being human perception of motion ... Now we are told that the 'distortion' of Spacetime is only apparent at speeds approaching light speed or alternatively, at vast distances. But surely we can measure it at any speed or distance ? In other words, any and all movement, must distort Spacetime, however small that movement is ? Now for my 'brainstorming' question. All thats moving in relation to us, cars on the street, trees in the wind, the hair on our head blowing in the wind, the wind itself, our arm as we strike a home run .... must, in some sense be moving slightly into the future, or alternatively, the past. Our body and all around us must only be synchronised when we are 'still' in relation to our selves and our surroundings. ? In other words if we could freeze frame our surroundings so that only the present were visible, then the only parts visible would be the parts that were in the same still state as the observer ? Would our arm swinging the baseball bat be visible, or only return to our view once the home run had been hit, would roads be empty of all traffic ?. (Of course this is impossible as Nobody pointed out, if time was frozen, light would be frozen and we would receive no light at all.) Is it possible that our 'esse' is in some sense not just in the present but in a wider band bounded by our motion. Are we spread or smeared or 'Bell-curved' across a small amount (or even all) of the past-future with the immediate present being the mythical mid position from which we presume to take our 'base' measurements? Or are there simply billions of Graybeards, perish the thought, all acting in near-unison in parrallel universes and our 'esse' is just a condensed persona of them all ... LOL If I'm crazy, where did the craziness set in .... ?? cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Graybeard.. why is that from the mythical midposition, we only move forward and not backward??

Well Dip .... You always ask the hard questions ... LOL

I have heard many arguments and ideas about this:

1.. Entropy ... This basically says that we are more attuned towards order than disorder. As we came from order (lo-entropy) we are able to perceive backwards but not forwards (hi entropy)

I suppose this is an explanation but I don't like it much.

2.. Brian Greene claims that we can be programmed. In other words if Graybeard Software was deleted and I was reprogrammed with Dipayankar software all your past and experiences would be mine. I would be 100% convinced that my past was yours. Therefore the past is no more perceivable than the future. We only think we move forwards because we believe we have moved to our present position from a previous one.

I don't really think this is the final answer either.

3.. Each moment comes with its own past! Whatever moment your in, it has its own past coded in it. Eg: If one moment you are a T-Rex devouring some less fortunate dinosaur, and the next you are Graybeard, and it is pointed out to you that a moment before you were a dinosaur, you would argue, "Impossible, I remember my Father and he wasn't a dinosaur". Each moment has its own history

I don't really like this one either. And of course there are many more, many are spiritual.

Originally Posted by dipayankar Graybeard.. why is that from the mythical midposition, we only move forward and not backward??

I don't know if we move at all. I would like to re-word your question: Why do we perceive the past and not the future, given the assumption that the past and future are contemporary with the present.

My answer is that we do not 'perceive' the past any more than we can 'perceive' the future.

I tend to think that 'Memory' is a primeval natural selection tool. Necessary to survive. Even if you are a very simple-celled creature some things are necessary to know by comparison. eg: Day/Night. Hot/Cold. If you inadvertantly enter a cave and are attacked by a Sabre-toothed Tiger and miraculously survive. You need to commit your surroundings to memory, so that you can always compare new surroundings with that of the Sabre-toothed Tigers surroundings and you don't make the same mistake again.

This is what I think our past consists of. It is just our fond and not so fond memories. it doesn't really exist. Nothing to do with a Scientific Past Present or Future. When the last person who saw Jesus Christ in the flesh died. Did we lose that past, or did we lose it when Jesus died, or have we never lost it. Its all just opinion!

So I suppose this explanation provides some sort of an answer. Our memory collects more data and so the statistically weighted assumption is that we move forward.

No doubt many holes can be shot in this theory too. Did any of this make sense Dip ?


cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Profpat NADA. Best to you my illusory friends,

Hi Pat ... what is NADA ... and why are we only illusory friends ....

cool bananas ... greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

To attach meaning to observations, observers have to be embedded in a temporal dimension. Information comes from perceiving a difference between two states—and it is TIME that separates those states. Some say time is movement.