[subversion]

The purpose of this thread is to examine the possibility of time travel. Time travel has often been discussed in science fiction. Interestingly, it has been observed throughout history that many things once exlclusive to sci-fi have entered the realm of true science. One example of this would be space exploration. Will time-travel, currently the exclusive property of science-fiction, one day also enter into the realm of reality? This forum is for you to decide. I have noticed that every poll taken so far has seemed to reflect what I believe is the truth. So please vote and give your opinion, it does not necessarily have to be based on anything, you just have to give your gut opinion. Will time travel eventually become a reality? Feel free to extrapolate in your posts.

[dleviwing]

We are traveling into the future at every instant of time. If you are asking if reversing this is possible, then the absolute fact is NO. You may view the past, but no physical movement to the past is possible. Don't confuse the insight of past SiFi authors with true physical sciences.

[subversion]

Yes, I'm obviously referring to traveling backwards in time, not forwards. And incidentally, not being able to travel back in time is not a fact, it is a speculation. There is no currently accepted law in physics that says you can't travel back in time. You have a bad habit of denying things outright without backing it up. Incidentally, for the purpose of this thread, travelling to alternate universes counts as a kind of time travel, since alternate universes will likely sometimes resemble the past.

ps. how may you view the past dleviwing, are you referring to my time reflection paradox (which BTW you've never commented on my time reflection paradox have you?) or just video recordings?

[mkirkpatrick]

Good topic,Sub,
For me there is just the now,but this can be now,Today!and also now,yesterday
or tomorrow!the now is an eternal constant and never moves in the absolute
sense,but then we have the realitive,as well.for me all is linked into conscious-ness,the greater level of consciousness the wider the Now becomes,so that if
one say achieved cosmic-consciousness then the now could span centuries,and that would be either-backwards into the now of say the 15 century or the now
of the 25th century,although they would look like they were hundreds of years
apart they would both be in the Now?This of course would mean that you would need to stand outside of the realitive,and embrace the absolute.Also there isthe
other aspect of so called dreaming,and the dreamer visiting past and future sites.and also those who remember past lives,some times many centuries in the
past,assuming they are not all cranks and deluded bufoons,what about that as well.for me you can go forward or backward in the Now.


kind regards michael.

[dleviwing]

Sub;
You view the past every waking moment unless you are blind. If you use a device called a telescope you can view further into the past.

incidentally, not being able to travel back in time is not a fact, it is a speculation.

You have it backwards: Traveling back in time is the speculation. The impossibility of doing so is a FACT since time is a one dimensional vector and not an entity you can manipulate. No physical laws allow for it nor do they suggest it as a possibility.
Time is axiomatic by definition and is only proclaimed otherwise by fools.

You have a bad habit of denying things outright without backing it up.

You have a bad habit of making unfounded statements without the knowledge to support any of them. It is your right to do so and my right to correct you.
It is not my place to educate you Sub; I was hoping you would use your wisdom to recognize the need.


PS: One axiom you can count on is:
There are no paradoxes in nature.

[Guille]

dave,

true, there are no paradoxes in nature, it's just the interpreters of nature (humans) that create these paradoxes.

About the poll, I voted "other" because I don't believe neither that there will be time travell or that there won't be. I believe that there IS already time trravel. We are moving in time in this exact moment. We do not notice because we have a constant speed, just like when you are in an aeroplane, if it's steady, you don't even notice it's moving, or just like the earth, which moves but you don't notice. In actual fact, we are not moving in constant speed through time, because this changes both if we change our speed and our spacetime point. If we go on an aeroplane we will be further from the centre of the earth's gravitational field, so time will go faster. But it won't, because actually we are going at a fast speed, so this will make time go slower. But we can say that speed in time is the same because the changes are very little.

If what you are talking about is if we will manage to control both our direction and speed in travelling time, well, that depends on evolution and progress. Maybe we don't even ahve to do anything, and evolution itself will give us this ability after a few million years.

[subversion]

good statements all around folks, I'll try to respond to each of you, then I'll provide a snippit of my theory

Michael, you raise a good point that now is always now, whether you travel forward OR backwards. I think Antonio had a thread a while ago where he said that time has multiple arrows, including the subjective arrow. So no matter where we go, back or forward, our subjective arrow always goes forward, so even if we went back in time it would still be the future for us. It's also interesting what you say about "now" having a sort of magnitude. Either it can span a few mili seconds, or a few centuries, dependent on your consciousness. I think giant organisms would resolve the present to a less narrow degree than say, ants. I'm also glad you bring up the point of dreaming, which could be discussed at great detail but I'll just say a few words. To me dreams are a window into the non-linear nature of time. Since existence is inseparable from perception, and since we cannot perceive any difference between dreams and waking life, that means that dreams are like existence and thus each of us might indeed be "time traveling" every night. I think I'll start another thread about dreams cause they're important.

Dave, I am confused, could you please give me the scientific law that says you cannot go back in time, and please give me a reference and tell me the person who formulated this law. I have a feeling you are working under an assumption, and thus perhaps need to educate yourself, for I feel quite edified actually, thank you very much.

And there are theoretical circumstances which have been suggested to allow for time travel, one quick example would be wormholes. Furthermore, if you aren't open to the idea of time travel, which would mean you belie your own said disapproval of dogmatism, then perhaps you should ask Robert why he included a forum for Time Travel on this website. Apparently, without needing a reason, he thought that time travel might have something to do with the TOE. Hmmm, what a concept. Surely you should tell him he is foolish for thinking that such a subject was even remotely discussable.

Guille, good observation that we are constantly traveling through time, always forward. I think you're right though about the possibility for also traveling backwards in time, through evolution and progress. Indeed, the progress of evolution will grant us the ability, for evolution brings about all great accomplishments. I will soon make another thread about this last point.

And now I will tell you all how I perceive the possibility of time travel. I want to clarify that traveling back in time is the same thing as traveling to an alternate universe. My theory predicts alternate universes, which will represent the different possible histories and outcomes of our universe. It is likely that some alternate universes will resemble the past, but they may be slightly different. So for example, let's say you went to an alternate universe and you discovered an old buddy of yours, named Fred. You may be surprised to see Fred, and it may cause you to think you were in the past, but then imagine your surprise when you try to call him Fred and he replies "my name is Allamalla Fraktar, who is Fred?" It may even be that while Allamalla looks exactly identical to the friend you remembered, Fred, and he even listens to the same music and uses the same brand of hair gel, he has completely different parents than Fred did.

Other cases will not be so clear cut. Depending on the speed of permutation, which I will explain in the future, an alternate universe could be more or less nearly identical to the past. In this case, you would find Fred, and his name would still be Fred, and he'd have the same parents, but maybe he'd be left handed instead of right handed. You might not notice such a small difference, so as far as you cared, you would be in the past. The point here is that while you can have the illusion of going to the past, you can never travel to the EXACT PERFECT representation of the past, at least something small must be different.

So I've saved you a lot of time Dave, now you can tell me the law which prevents you from going to the exact past, and you can say that it is Subversions Law of Exactitude. I give you this law without proof, but I will prove it in the future, so you might elect to hold off on referencing it. Subversion's Law of Exactitude is stated as such, you can never travel to the exact past, but you can travel to a near representation of the past. If somehow we did manage super super accuracy and traveled to the exact past, it would bring hell on Earth. All things would meet their ruin.

questions, comments, criticisms, qualms, queries, inquiries, quandaries, conversational quarries, quibbles, quarrels, present them if you got 'em



-Master Sub

[mkirkpatrick]

Many thanks Sub,for your generous comments,yes dreaming is an interesting
subject for a thread,I will leave it to your-goodself to start it off.What about
also Remote-viewing! Look at all the money the C.I.A. and the K.G.B. pored into
it,were the remote viewers looking at the now of today,or the now of tomorrow!
Again maybe another thread starter.The national dream-laboratory in California
has many years of research findings there,wonder if any of their research has
time travel been evidenced.Just an idea.

kind regards michael

[quanta07]

I voted YES, for reasons I have posted in the past.

Within the expansion function, is an embedded expansion of time itself.
And the role of time in the existence of our expanding universe
can be better understood by examination of this time series.

(Here is what can be shown about time)

This is an analysis of time itself, based a MacLaurin time series expansion.

Definition of MacLaurin series.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_series

Defining time as:


Time=ln(e^t)=t

This is quite redundant, but valid.

(e^t) expressed as a MacLaurin series (a valid expansion of this function)


(e^t)= 1+t+(t^2/2!)+(t^3/3!)+(t^4/4!)+(t^5/5!)+(t^6/6!)+....+(t^N/N!)



Now before the linear transformation(natural log) is used to define time itself,
we must understand more about the expression e^t,
and to do this we must understand what this series is saying in the language of the universe.

SYMBOLS

Any expansion of any function (primarily with TWO or more unknowns), [TAYLOR]
the symbols (= and +) must be read as 'contains' and 'union' respectively.(subset[set])

However this is an expansion of a function with only ONE unknown, [MacLaurin]
and as such the symbols (= and +) have duality in meaning and function, there is a choice.

With the (ONE unknown) function....(e^t)= 1+t+(t^2/2!)+(t^3/3!)+(t^4/4!)+(t^5/5!)+(t^6/6!)+....+(t^N/N!)

the symbols (= and +) may be read as 'contains' and 'union' respectively.(subset[set])

AND the symbols (= and +) may be read as 'equal to' and 'plus' respectively,(arithmetic).

To test validity(so far), evaluate both sides with SAME VALUE of 't',

solve and add together each domain to the right of the equate

solve e^t, then compare results........



Waiting........waiting........waiting........waiti ng........waiting........waiting........OK?



As you carry out domain solving into the higher dimension, (since this series converges toward zero)
Did you note the individual higher dimensional DOMAINS contribute less and less to the overall summated value?
(thank you, you have just proved MacLaurin is a valid expansion of this function, e^t)

Valid (so far).........


The series may also be perceived as 'the union of multidimensional time domains', and this is the view we should analyze...

from the NULL set(1) through N dimensional time(t^N/N!) domain...the series reads 'UNION of ALL SUBSETS(domains) OF TIME'

We can now conclude the series has Subsets in the form (t^N/N!),
AND Each point in each subset(N) has the form (t^N/N!).

IE...subsets contains points of time, but the points themselves are multidimensional

Example: subset(N=3) contains ONLY points in the form (t^3/6), this subset contains three dimensional time points

subset(N=1) contains ONLY points in the form (t), this subset IS linear time, which could be measurable with clocks

Valid(so far)........

NOW, do the valid linear transformation:

This view states TIME itself is the natural log of the UNION of SUBSETS CONTAINING MULTIDIMENSIONAL TIME,

and this view is NOW validly mapped to the definition of TIME itself.

Despite the peculiarity of this statement, it is valid....

This now presents a serious problem for any future plans of mankind to 'time travel'.

To facilitate time travel, Mankind may need to generate an 'instant' delta-TIME throughout ALL OF TIME.

But space-time, universal expansion, is a TAYLOR series..(like a MacLaurin series, with domain coefficients NOT equal to one)

The function for Universal expansion is a polynomial function.

This means we MUST have the mathematical tools

to solve an Nth degree polynomial.......(at least a sixth degree)

So far, we only have the tools to solve 2nd degree polynomials..(called the Quadratic Formula).



Therefore, I believe ‘time travel’ will probably not happen in my lifetime.



(Here is the part that causes me trouble, my opinion)

HOWEVER, I must inject that it has already occurred ACCIDENTALLY with disastrous results

Please verify in Yahoo Search (or any search engine of the web) these subjects


"USS Eldridge" and "the Philadelphia experiment"

here's a link to start http://www.crystalinks.com/phila.html



This data is only recently declassified and NOW available,

use other links and What you will find:



In short, a failed attempt, by the Navy and Einstein at light bending,
for stealth and NON-detection, 'hiding' from German submarines during WWII.

A failed experiment that produced a real hiccup in the 'normal' flow of time for the USS Eldridge and crew.

Now that you know about the existence of multidimensional time, have you concluded what happened here?

For the Eldridge and crew, the enormous generated magnetic field
(product of acceleration domain, a 5 dimensional time domain, within the function of expansion),

produced a momentary mapping of the molecular structure of ship AND crew to points in 5 dimensional time.

Thus producing temporary relocation of ship and crew from Philadelphia harbor back to Norfolk, Va.

harbor where the ship was previously moored several days early.(eye witnesses saw this occur)

Turning off the field, the ship 'rematerialized' back in Philadelphia harbor. (eye witnesses saw this occur)

The rematerialization left the molecular structure of most of the topside crew,

merged with the molecular structure of the Eldridge. Many of the crew were found dead.

Others went insane. The rest were short-lived survivors that hours later phased in and out of linear time,

effectively disappearing and reappearing in front of many eye witnesses, in Philadelphia AND in Norfolk.



NOW WOULD BE THE TIME FOR VERIFICATION of what I have just stated here.

Please do not take this matter in faith, NEVER take anything in faith, please verify EVERTHING



Even if this experiment failed as an effective defense device,

IMHO, I believe it was our first documented experiment in time travel,

and because of our current ignorance of time itself,

Mankind should not pursue this venture of time travel……



Happy Thougths…..Q7

[force5]

No one ever has or ever will travel backward in time. Except in those cases dealing with ones own memory or the study of history in one form or another.

John