Gravity & the Void: Tip of a TOE Iceberg

[Bob Campbell]

[quote=N0B0DY;32009]Hello again, Bob. All is very well.

"I can't say that I disagree with very much of what you have put down. etc..."

Hi Nobody,

Forgive me for repeating. The System is an expression of the cosmic order. Since it embraces all possible structural possibilities to phenomenal experience it is not possible to step outside it. Language allows us to make any claim we want to of course, and we are entitled to do so, but that will not make the claim true if it can not find verification in experience of some kind. Language allows us to grasp concepts intellectually and then compartmentalize them in way that can escape a holistic intuitive grasp. The point is the System is not constrained to a behavioral or intellectual methodology. It can only be understood by an exhaustive quest and language so often gets in the way. I think this may be part of the problem here.

I don't know what you mean by "the energy it takes to bring a system to absolute zero." Absolute zero temperature is the lowest atomic energy state but the atom still exists physically. Is this zero point energy? If the loss of energy is added to the residual energy of the system, then what do you mean by the system? Do you mean a system of atoms at absolute zero? Is the cooling apparatus included?

I capitalize the word Void to distinguish it from the undefined and vaguely understood "vacuum" of traditional physics. As I understand it ZPE is a concept related to the vacuum. I think we should be careful not to confuse these concepts. The quantum energy of the Void associated with relative motions increases with respect to the particular masses in motion, but this is due to relative space-frame skipping in a synchronous universe. It happens at many levels and is highly structured because the heavens are dominated by cyclical motions at many levels, from galaxies to suns to planets and moons, not to mention the physical, chemical and biological processes taking place in them. Maybe you mean something of this nature?

As I see it the challenge in living is to achieve a creative balance of mind consistent with the cosmic order by which we have evolved and continue to evolve. Perhaps balance is what you mean by stilling the mind. Being is a verb and we can't stop the active creative process of living, not even in death. If you mean that the Void is associated with consciousness and with the nature of Being transcending this physical creation, then I tend to agree with certain qualifications. This realization is sometimes taken as nirvana. It is a profound experience of knowing Unity. There is an absence of suffering in a state of wondrous being. Organic bliss is an independent phenomenon that may be related to balance but it is not present in the pure experience of the Void. The Void is characterized by an absence of phenomena. With qualifications one might think of it as a timeless conscious substrate of being but it is difficult to say much of anything about its character that is meaningful in the public domain. One must experience it directly.

Best regards,
Bob

[N0B0DY]

Bob,

I don't think there is too much of a linguistic barrier because I understand your references, and your assumptions of my references are accurate. The only differences in our interpretations are our considerations as to what is material and its connection to the mind.

For millennia light has been spiritualized away as a type of inner knowledge, but I literalize it to equate it with scientific light. Conversely, some literal interpretations only make sense allegorically.

I equate the mind and body as different abstract forms of light governed by the infinite variable interactions of EM waves. The motion of "matter," based on the cumulative effects of quantum fluctuations is not a physical phenomenon, but a subconscious one. The singular perspective, that we call the "I," is a restless subconscious mind that creates chaotic fluctuations surrounding universal stillness. The subconscious sets the parameters of reality, whereby your system governs experiential reality, but I infer all phenomena and noumena must be rendered as abstract because the absolute universe/void is changeless.

The still universe is equated with the still mind, and is synonymous to the nirvanic state, which essentially doesn't exist. So I don't concur with interpretations of eternal bliss in this nirvanic state because a certain pre-requisite differentiation is lacking, and therefore refer to the state as the gateway to perfection. Like you said, not even death is an escape for the creative process, but proper dying leads to proper living as the "I" merges with the universe that has already achieved perfection. Otherwise whatever the subconscious mind dictates, we are consciously subjected to.

The experiences you have referred to may be based on unification, but without absolute unification there is no escaping the innermost self that is imbalanced by nature. So I proclaim that the singular self is a black-hole singularity, of which nothing can escape, and proclaim that the absolute state of the universe is exactly that - nothing. It is the gateway of true individual liberation.

[Bob Campbell]

Bob,

The experiences you have referred to may be based on unification, but without absolute unification there is no escaping the innermost self that is imbalanced by nature. So I proclaim that the singular self is a black-hole singularity, of which nothing can escape, and proclaim that the absolute state of the universe is exactly that - nothing. It is the gateway of true individual liberation.

Hi Nobody,

I feel that our diaogue has strayed rather far from the article's subject, so I wll be brief. Language allows anyone to say whatever they want to. For it to be true it must allow of confirmation in experience of some kind. A proclamation is not enough. Words must relate to something. It is in the nature of experience that a negative so-called "truth" can not be confirmed as truth in experience of any kind. For example one can say that there is no God, but there is no positive experience possible that can confirm that. So to say that an indivdual is an isolated black hole singularity from which nothing can escape has no significant meaning. There is no environment to give it relevance. A black hole in what? If the absolute state of the universe is nothing there is nothing to talk about. Statements of this kind do not allow of confirmation in experience of any kind. They are just words. How can that be liberation? Liberation from what to what? Most of us seek some degree of sustainable harmony through transparent insight into creation and the creative process, not psychic oblivion. If you want to elaborate on a view like this I think you should write an article on it and specifically how it relates to a theory of everything.

Sorry to be slow responding. Just busy. Please take care.
Bob

[N0B0DY]

No problem, Bob.

I try to keep to my own thread because I have a tendency to mess up others. When I saw "Void" it caught my eye, but it's true that there are many interpretations of what it is and isn't.

In my thread my first statement implies that my thinking opposes the toe, but as the toe has been defined a few times as the unification of forces, it is in that respect the same. The difference is in the claim that the unification of forces results in one single force, and my claim that the unification results in no force.

I have elaborated on absolute speed and illusory differentiable speeds that place people's lives in a dream, in both articles and my thread, but most folks aren't willing to let go of physicality even though it makes no effectual difference if reality is based on consciousness or matter.

The only difference is that consciouness doesn't have to be preserved, whereas physics proclaims that matter does. And it is this type of brainwashing that prevents the freedom of creating the lasting dream, as opposed to "existing" in some of the nightmares people are subjected to.

[gautam]

Dear Nobody
To me consciousness is the bouncing board for the reality. We cant mix up the two even if the reality (matter) has a paradigm shift after entering consciosness. There will still be a TOE if it is really there. It may be reflection of the real one but shall withstand hitherto known laws of universe.
Gautam

[N0B0DY]

How would you discern reality, if not through consciousness, Gautam?

If it is through consciousness that you discern reality, how do you know that reality is not governed by layers of consciousness instead of layers of matter?

Reality is just a term for sensory reality, and better understanding how one senses effects gives a better understanding of what reality is and isn't, imo.

[gautam]

Yes my friend !
Reality as we know is governed or may be altered by conciousness but not the reality as it really is. Now we are concerned with the reality discerned and not what it ultimately is. The stage of this transition may or may not be governed by the ultimate theory we are looking for. If that is the point then still there cant be an absurd break in the reality. The change over law is bound to be an offshoot of the theory if it is the TOE.If we dont believe so then the quest is futile.
Gautam

[N0B0DY]

Pretty much futile, I would say.

What reality as it ultimately is are you referring to? Is its existence based on logical abduction or deduction?