[Robert]

I have added an attachment to the starting post so you can download the mind map and view with a free viewer. I also included a link so you can view the mind map using Internet Explorer and a free plugin viewer. See the forum intro for more details.

[michellemfry]

Is the only key to an original thought geometry alone? All I have to do is bend my mind in an original way and an original qualia forms? This fascinates me more and more already.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by michellemfry Is the only key to an original thought geometry alone? All I have to do is bend my mind in an original way and an original qualia forms? This fascinates me more and more already.

I think it's wrong to use geometry to describe thought, for the simple fact that geometry is usefull to describe the physical world (and, actually, it only describes a hypothetical "perfect" world) and thoughts are of the mind. I think the onyl math that can be used to describe thoughts are: logic, to make a logical understanding of thought sequence, thought development... And probability, to study independent and dependent thoughts, the probability that there is for a thought to occur under x circumstances, how thoughts connect...

[David Maes]

I think Qualia is some kind of gubbuk.

When you have done the dishes and in the little basket of the washing-up-machine there is just one spoon left, then I call this spoon a 'gubbuk'.

[michellemfry]

I believe qualia exist. They are incommunicable events. How often we have had to utter the words, You wouldn't understand. Knowing that the other person lacks the experience to comprehend the qualia.

[Guille]

all the horses I see make up my whole idea of “horse”. However, the thing is that my idea of horse is not a fact. My idea is true because it is a set of experiences of horses, and thus all the properties and qualities I give to the idea of horse are true, but I do not give all of which they are. There are properties of horses which I do not include in my idea of horse, that is why my idea of horse is not complete, although is true. Another problem is that my idea is just an idea, so it does not contain all the horses and properties, it just includes them (the horses are not in my idea; they form my idea).

[michellemfry]

I'm confused Guille, does that mean you believe that qualia exist? Your example tells me much except your conclusion.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by michellemfry I'm confused Guille, does that mean you believe that qualia exist? Your example tells me much except your conclusion.

Deep and transcendental philosophical problems such as "Does Qualia Exist?" are too big as to be answered directly. This is why I first post about our ideas, and how they relate and differ to the world. Also I should not ethat there is a differnece between the objects of qualia an qualia themselves. Because My idea of horse is an object of qualia, not a qualia. A qualia is that which let us have objects of qualia: for example anger. The fact that I anger exists in me impplies that I can have objects in it, and I do, I have anger to things. But the question is wheather we can say that qualia exist still knowing that it's objects can't prove it because they are not factual (although yes true). Hard question, I will develop some thoughts on it trhoughout this morning, and hope to post an argumentation before lunch.