A Little Tiny Point - Stephen Hawking's Universe

[Graybeard]

Hi Greg;

I need to be stirred and shaken at times. I'm sorry but I don't remember your theory explaining the " Big Bang " and ultimate expansion. Are you a believer in a steady state model of the universe? I know you strongly believe in evolution.

Best,

Pat

P.S. It's not irrational logic, even Aristotle had to introduce a " Prime Mover " to kick start this universe. ( Remember he started the study of logic ) Aristotlean Logic

Yes ... I suppose it is not irrational to believe in a creator. I think that Neutralino (and myself) were objecting to the 'definition' of who/what that creator could be, if there was a creator. Without evidence, speculation can consist of any theory ... hence the Superman.

My own theory is in line with mainstream ... The Standard Model. I realise this does not answer the beginning ... for which I have no answer.

I am making a claim here that I may have to back down on in future. I believe that QM shows us a tantalising glimpse of a pattern that we can almost recognise, a sort of Deja-vu feeling. Yet try as we might, test as we will, the pattern we not emerge in any clarity. I believe QM holds the secrets, as yet unrevealed, of the TOE.

I believe that Charles Darwin's theory on Natural Selection will eventually be expanded to cover the Universe. It will also encompass the TOE, in fact I don't believe there can be a TOE that does not acknowledge Natural Selection.

Natural Selection has nothing to say about a creator, in fact there is no necessity for one. It can operate without one and nothing we observe will change. It, as yet, does not explain a beginning .... We both well know that using Occam's razor that if something is not needed in a theory then it should be discarded ...

Sorry Prof, I should have answered in this fashion when you first asked.

cool bananas ... greg

[cosvis]

Hi to all,

It seems to me that the idea of a "singularity", and the "universal expansion", are accepted as scientific facts but I have my doubts. They may be scientific theories but not yet certainties. I have my doubts about the existence of a singularity. To me it is impossible that all the energy of the universe existed in dimensionless space. To me the smallest existing particle in the universe is a Plank, or Quantum particle with dimensions that are known including its quantity of energy. All the Plank or quanta particles constitute the universe in a black hole formation. There is no need even to postulate of an expansion of the universe. The Plank particles move at a constant speed of light within the universe, governed by universal evolutionary laws according to which the universe is constantly evolving.

Yours Cosvis.

[cosvis]

Hi Graybeard and all,

The question might be asked: "Who set up the process of natural selection or for that matter, evolution, that we observe in nature." I do not believe it just popped out of nothing and it certainly must have been a great intelligence and power that was able to achieve such a marvelous process.

Yours Cosvis.

[Profpat]

Hi Cosvis;

Genesis has man as the last creative ( evolutionary ) step. I don't think there has been any evolving ( improvement ) since that time.

Man being so creative, however, will probably evolve himself into a borg.

Best,

Pat

[neutralino]

Hi to all,

It seems to me that the idea of a "singularity", and the "universal expansion", are accepted as scientific facts but I have my doubts. They may be scientific theories but not yet certainties. I have my doubts about the existence of a singularity. To me it is impossible that all the energy of the universe existed in dimensionless space. To me the smallest existing particle in the universe is a Plank, or Quantum particle with dimensions that are known including its quantity of energy. All the Plank or quanta particles constitute the universe in a black hole formation. There is no need even to postulate of an expansion of the universe. The Plank particles move at a constant speed of light within the universe, governed by universal evolutionary laws according to which the universe is constantly evolving.

Yours Cosvis.

A singularity is taken by many people to simply be a signal that our theories are breaking down: that is, a singluarity is a mathematical problem, not a physical problem.

Expansion of the universe agrees with observations to a very high degree. If you say the universe doesn't expand, then how do you explain the observations?

[neutralino]

Genesis has man as the last creative ( evolutionary ) step. I don't think there has been any evolving ( improvement ) since that time.

With all due respect: this is the cosmology forum, not a religion forum. The existence or not of evolution has nothing to do with cosmology.

[Profpat]

A singularity is taken by many people to simply be a signal that our theories are breaking down: that is, a singluarity is a mathematical problem, not a physical problem.

Expansion of the universe agrees with observations to a very high degree. If you say the universe doesn't expand, then how do you explain the observations?

For other mathematical uses, see Mathematical singularity. For non-mathematical uses, see Gravitational singularity.
Hi Neutralino;

Isn't a gravitational singularity a place?

Best,

Pat

[Profpat]

With all due respect: this is the cosmology forum, not a religion forum. The existence or not of evolution has nothing to do with cosmology.

With all due respect: I think someone should expand their definition of cosmology. It's amazing what can be connected with an open and expansive mind, open to all posibilities.

Cosmology (from Greek κοσμολογία - κόσμος, kosmos, "universe"; and -λογία, -logia, "study") is study of the Universe in its totality, and by extension, humanity's place in it. Though the word cosmology is recent (first used in 1730 in Christian Wolff's Cosmologia Generalis), study of the Universe has a long history involving science, philosophy, esotericism, and religion.


Best,

Pat

P.S. How are things with you Neutralino. Good I hope. Would you like your moderator job back? You were one of the more active ones.

[Profpat]

"Our sun at the center of our solar system is just one star among billions in the Milky Way galaxy. Around us are billions and billions of galaxies. Where could this entire universe come from? Was it always this way or did the universe have a beginning? The church has always believed that the universe came from a moment of creation - a time when the universe began. Meanwhile, scientists developed two theories: the Big Bang and the Steady State theories. In this century, science has come to understand how the universe began from a tiny point, fifteen billion years ago. No matter how incredible it sounds, it seems that the church's ideas of a moment of creation were right from the beginning."

- STEPHEN HAWKING'S UNIVERSE,
Volume I, Program II: The Big Bang
Copyright 1997

http://forums.delphiforums.com/EinsteinGroupie
(A Steady State forum)

R.P.s opening post to this thread. I believe this to be an excellent topic for discussion and comments. Notice how Dr Hawkings brings into his discussion: the universe, the steady state vs big bang theories, the tiny beginning ( the singularity ), the churches idea, etc.

[cosvis]

Hi Pat and all,

Above you seem to say that the evolution of humankind seem to be the apex of the evolutionary process. I believe the appearance of "homo sapiens", or intelligent life on earth is certainly a great point of achievement in the evolutionary process of the universe, but it is not the end of the universal evolutionary process. In my book "Cosmic Vision", I try to point to two further evolutionary processes. The present evolutionary process is the humanization of our beautiful planet earth when humankind will be able to control and manage it in such a way that all creatures including the plants and animals will be able to exist and prosper according to the natural evolutionary laws that governs us all.

A further stage of the universal evolutionary process, and we are just beginning to enter it, is the humanization of the solar system or the extra-terrestial expansion of humankind. This process could last until the end of time whenever that might be. I wish I could live at least to a time when humans can inhabit planet Mars.

Yours Cosvis.