RedShift Reprise - Expansion, Pro & Con

[RascalPuff]

Is spectroscopically determined red-shift a correct (Doppler) method determining an ongoing expansion of deep space - the further the faster, or, is it the alteration of light over greater distances; not an indicator of a spatially expanding universe, according to Hubble's Law? Is the spatial universe really expanding, or is it static?

Best Regards,
- RP

[Graybeard]

Is spectroscopically determined red-shift a correct (Doppler) method determining an ongoing expansion of deep space - the further the faster, or, is it the alteration of light over greater distances; not an indicator of a spatially expanding universe, according to Hubble's Law?

Best Regards,
- RP

The spectroscopically determined red-shift (Doppler) method is used to determine the change in frequency of the light spectrum from a distant object.

The results from this method indicate, reasonably conclusively that the Universe is spatially expanding, the further the faster, from any observer.

Hubbles Law is another method that reaches the same conclusion.

They are not necessarily independent of each other.

cool bananas ... greg

[RascalPuff]

The spectroscopically determined red-shift (Doppler) method is used to determine the change in frequency of the light spectrum from a distant object.

The results from this method indicate, reasonably conclusively that the Universe is spatially expanding, the further the faster, from any observer.

Hubbles Law is another method that reaches the same conclusion.

They are not necessarily independent of each other.

cool bananas ... greg

Hey Greg:
There's controversy...
Tired light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tired light is a class of hypothetical redshift mechanisms that were proposed as an alternative explanation for the redshift-distance relationship. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tired_light - 44k - Cached - Similar pages
Errors in Tired Light Cosmology

Tired light models invoke a gradual energy loss by photons as they travel through the cosmos to produce the redshift-distance law. ...
www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/tiredlit.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages
Curious About Astronomy: Can "tired light theory" explain the ...

There are many problems with the tired light theory, the main one being that there is no known way for photon's to lose energy (without also changing in ...
curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=444 - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
The Home of Tired Light. Redshift, the Hubble constant, Cosmic ...

The Hubble constant is a combination of the parameters of the electron and the planck constant.
www.lyndonashmore.com/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
[PDF] A Possible Tired-Light Mechanism

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
a new tired-light mechanism involving an interaction between a ... arguments in favour of reviving the tired-light mechanism or Segal’s. chronogeometry. ...
redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/Pre2001/V0N02PDF/V0N02VIG.pdf - Similar pages
CE425: Tired light

The red shift from distant galaxies has been interpreted as a Doppler effect from the universe expanding. However, it may instead be due to "tired light. ...
www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE425.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages
THE INFINITE UNIVERSE Chapter 1-2

The redshift of far away galaxies is explained with a tired light hypothesis. ... The redshift is to be seen of the type of the tired light hypothesis ...
www.eitgaastra.nl/timesgr/part1/2.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
Crank Dot Net | tired light

Crank Dot Net: tired light. ... Big Bang . steady state . tired light ... "When the Hubble variable was discovered in 1926 it had a value of 500 kilometres ...
www.crank.net/tired.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
1986: "TIRED LIGHT" REVIVED AGAIN

"...compared the tired light cosmology to the standard model of an expanding universe on four different observational tests and has found that on each one ...
www.science-frontiers.com/sf047/sf047p05.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
__________________________________________________ __________________

Also, please Google: 'static universe'.

Kewl Kukumbers,
- RP

[Graybeard]

Hey Greg:
There's controversy...
Tired light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kewl Kukumbers,
- RP

Hey Rascal ..... You had that ready to paste. You were just waiting for me to reply ..... LOL

will have to read them

cool bananas ... greg

[neutralino]

Hey Rascal ..... You had that ready to paste. You were just waiting for me to reply ..... LOL

will have to read them

cool bananas ... greg

If I had to pick one of those to suggest, I'd immediately suggest this one: www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/tiredlit.htm. It's on Ned Wright's page, and it's the only one on that list that's obviously written by a cosmologist.

[Graybeard]

Rascal ... If I read you correctly .......... ?

I read four of the links you offered including the one Neutralino suggested, as well as the Wiki. I had never heard or read on it before.

'Tired Light' supports theories that the Universe is not expanding, but is somewhat static.

'Tired Light' does not support theories that Space is expanding.

'Tired Light' proposals would support your contention that both matter and space are expanding in proportion.

Nice try, I almost fell in. But for the following reasons I don't agree with it.

The maths don't fit. In the link that Neutralino proposed 'errors in tired light cosmology' it can be clearly seen that in a study of 60 supernovae that redshift exactly fits the decay pattern, whereas 'tired light' would be independent of this decay.

The CMB is consistent. It would not be with 'tired light'

The resolution of distant objects would not be in 'focus', but somewhat blurred, depending on how far the light had come.

The Wiki lists many more observations and measurements that are inconsistent with the theory. But it does not rule it out absolutely:

There are nonstandard cosmologies who rely on tired light mechanisms though the vast majority of physicists and astronomers accept the conclusions of various studies [citation needed] that such an effect either does not or cannot account for cosmological redshifts.

cool bananas .... greg

PS: Xmas seems to have bought some sort of viral spiritual mania to most of the members on our forum. I am glad you haven't caught it yet ... its lonely around here ... bearing this in mind I will take the opportunity to wish you a happy one old mate ... cheers ... LOL

[RascalPuff]

Greg:
An excerpt from your last post:

'Tired Light' proposals would support your contention that both matter and space are expanding in proportion."

Whereas, you do get a red shift in a universe where both matter and space are expanding proportionately.

I don't agree with the 'tired light' premise, either.

Kewl Kewkumbers
- RP

[N0B0DY]

"The speed of light itself has not decayed at all, really. Rather, the obstacles (virtual particles) which absorb and then re-emit any given photon of light has increased with the increase in the Zero Point Energy in space, thus causing light to take longer to reach its final point of absorption – its destination. However, in between obstacles, the speed of light remains the same as the moment it was emitted from the atom. There is, in short, no such thing as ‘tired light.’ There is simply light being held up in its travel by denser mediums." A lay explanation can be found here: http://www.setterfield.org/simplified.html

I'm surprised that Setterfield has been subjected to such a great shun of his work, seeing as though he is like a modern LeMaitre - creationist. I think it might have something to do with his adherence to zpe, eventhough he has much support to back up his inferences.

Though I don't fathom literal expansion, but rather light taking time to observably-"traverse" scales, the mechanics involved in his explanations are somewhat midway to opposing views.

[Graybeard]

Greg:
An excerpt from your last post:

'Tired Light' proposals would support your contention that both matter and space are expanding in proportion."

Whereas, you do get a red shift in a universe where both matter and space are expanding proportionately.

I don't agree with the 'tired light' premise, either.

Kewl Kewkumbers
- RP

Redshift supports a Universe expanding spatially, or even spacetime, but I don't see how it supports matter expanding. ???

cool bananas ... greg

[RascalPuff]

Redshift supports a Universe expanding spatially, or even spacetime, but I don't see how it supports matter expanding. ???

cool bananas ... greg

Is not expansion - accelerating expansion - the dominant micro-macro paradigm?

There are exceptions to the expansive rule of course, Greg.

Did you have something particularly non-supportive in mind?

Kewl Kukumbers,
- RP