[TinyTree]

Reflections on mass:

Mass bends the space time continuum, affecting the curvature of space itself.

Mass can be converted into light, and radiation conveys inertia between two bodies.

Light moves along the space time curve in a straight line, although to an external observer this can appear bent because of the bend in the space time curvature.

So what happens when a massive object is emitting light rays? How does each individual photon affect the curvature of the space time which it itself flies through as it is emitted?

Is that space time curvature differential instantaneous does it propagate outwards faster than the speed of light, or is the change in space time curvature "flowing with the light itself", that is expanding with the light ray, but in all directions instead of just along the vector of the photon?

Do you see what I am getting at? The light emitted by a mass changes the mass of the object- thus affecting the curvature of the space time. What is the relationship here exactly?

If an object continuously emitted photons until it vanished, what would the behavior be of the gravitational well as it dissipated into nothing?

[zeroca]

Please, be patient to read the post as it resulted to be too large:

The matter (substance) can exist in two different state: 1.contracted (i.e. concentrated) or expended (i.e. rarefied).
We can take for vivid example water:
An ice is its solid form and the steam – its expended form (here at the beginning, I’d like to emphasize that an ice risen from the surface of the earth strives to the center of the Earth, but the steam – to the “sky” (i.e. from the center to opposite direction, and to the question - why? We’ll return later).
Conventionally, let’s call any separate amount of matter (for inst. – a piece of ice, or let’s say a plane with its engine turned off) single system, or independent system, or shut system.
Independent, i.e. self-defendant motion of any single system in a contracted form is only free fall, (or turning on its axis, if it isn’t placed “within gravitational field of heavenly body“), but motion of thrown by somebody a piece of ice or flying plane with working engine can’t be counted a single system, as they present kind of motion, caused by external force – in first case caused by fuel’s combustion, but in the second – by influencing of mechanical outer force.
Single system can easily convert from one state to another (i.e. from contracted form into expended) and vice-versa according to environment it is placed (the piece of ice will at once turn into light, if we “place” it on the Sun); i.e. only by adding or taking an energy to/from it. If we try to add the energy in form of heat to piece of ice, it will melt and then turn into gaseous state. If the steam loses the temperature, it will condense into liquid, then into solid form again, but in a first case it receives outer energy in form of heat, in the second – loses it (i.e. gives away the energy in form of heat) and not only water, but any kind of matter can be converted from contracted state to expanded and vice-versa (only they have different melting and evaporating points).
When a single system is in contracted state (for inst the piece of ice, or the plane with turned off engine) it strives to the center of planet, i.e. free fall is the main characteristic feature of single system’s behavior, when it’s in contracted condition, i.e. single system in solid state strives to the rest “by means of” free fall.
As well, we can put under pressure inside some reservoir the single system in expended (e.g. in gaseous) state, but it strives to get expended and in case of taking away of outer press, strives to the "sky". I’d call the mentioned striving – free rise.
I.e. free fall is a passive process; (turning of heavenly bodies on their axes is passive process as well: I explain this process in the thread gravity and space).
Free rise is active process; light is as well active process, i.e.

The ultimate form of expended matter, i.e. ultimate form of “lightness” is a light.

The mass (inertia, i.e. "passive speed", i.e. striving to the rest) and the lightness ("active speed", striving to be expended) of single system are inverse-proportionally to each-other:
the mass is maximal and the speed is minimal “at rest”, i.e. after the ending of free fall, but in an expended state of the same single system (i.e. “at vortex”) – just opposite: mass is minimal and speed is maximal: The extreme expended form of any single system is its existence in form of light, when mass is minimal (strives to zero), so the speed – maximal (strives to the speed of light),

So any matter being in contracted form can’t move with the speed of light and have mass at the same time, as it’s bound to turn into form of light, i.e. must loose its mass in this case.
As a conclusion we can say that the matter exists in two opposite forms: 1.contracted – when mass is maximal, speed minimal, i.e. mass is passivity, inertia;
2. Expended – when mass is minimal, speed maximal, i.e. lightness is liveliness, activity;
And loosing of mass means gaining of lightness and vice-versa.
As light hasn’t mass, so it isn’t bound to strive anywhere purposely, but can spread to all directions freely.


1.The first animation- "At the beginning of the world in case of two bodies"
---The direction of space is shown with blue arrows
---The direction of contraction (concentration of matter) is shown with gray arrows.

2. The second animation - When the process of forming of universe is complete we got planets with adjacent to them spaces and the matter strives just to the center of planet, in the area of adjacent space of which it is located.

---Little pebbles - direction of striving of contracted matter: free fall.
---The blue clouds – direction of striving of expanded matter: free rise.

[TinyTree]

I like your explanation Zeroaca, I need to look at that some more and think about it.

Something else that is bugging me:

So a photon apparently does not have any mass. However, an object with mass, emitting a photon, must lose mass according to e=mc2. Now this photon must climb out of the gravitational well of this same mass, causing a redshift of the photon, reducing its frequency.

Now if this same photon is absorbed somewhere else, it increases the mass of the new object- DECREASED BY THE AMOUNT OF REDSHIFTING WHICH TOOK PLACE IN THE GRAVITATIONAL WELL.

So there it is- objects are losing mass and energy, and it is not conserved. Is it? What is going on?

[dleviwing]

TinyTree;
What causes mass? Mass is a property of physical objects that, roughly speaking, measures the amount of matter they contain. It is a central concept of classical mechanics and related subjects.

Strictly speaking, there are two different quantities called mass:
Inertial mass is a measure of an object's inertia or its resistance to changing its state of motion when a force is applied. An object with small inertial mass changes its motion more readily, and an object with large inertial mass does so less readily.

Gravitational mass is a measure of the strength of an object's interaction with the gravitational field. Within the same gravitational field, an object with a smaller gravitational mass experiences a smaller force than an object with a larger gravitational mass. (This quantity is sometimes confused with weight, which is the force experienced by a mass. An object will have a larger weight if it is placed in a stronger gravitational field, but its mass remains unchanged.)

Although inertial and gravitational mass are conceptually distinct, no experiment performed to date has ever managed to find a difference between the two.

Now that we have stated the text book concept, let's look at mass in terms of the absolutes. As an object is accelerated, its mass value increases. This is referred to as Relativistic mass (Einstein's equation). If mass were truly representative of a quantity of matter, this value would remain constant regardless of motion. What we observe with acceleration of an object is the conversion of the random motion (degree of freedom) of an object to the uniform motion of a linear accelerated velocity. As I've stated in other posts, uniform motion allows the Self-affinity bonding property of matter to increase and thus it causes the substance of the object to condense to form an object with greater spatial density and quite likely smaller spatial dimensions. Thus this does not increase the quantity of matter, only the quantity of uniform motion and results in less randomized motion. This can also be viewed as causing the random motion wavelengths to reduce and to be confined within a smaller spatial volume if we do an analyses of the standing wave nature of a particle.

Light and radiant energy are waves and should not be interpreted as a traveling entity of substance or energy called a photon. The photon only defines the change in the state of motion (energy) of an object when it is influence by a wavefront (absorption) or the wave (energy) propagated when an object changes its motion state. Change of mass should not be interpreted as a change in the quantity of substance.

If you truly wish to understand mass and radiant energy, study the motion properties of matter and understand that relativity is only a mathematical geometry that defines the perception of measured quantities (dimensions).

[zeroca]

Excuse me beforehand if I didn't correctly quote your replies, but I'd like to answer item after item:

You see I’m not a great physicist, but have my own interpretations, so read, if it can be useful to you:
As I recall from school physics, if the object with mass, (let’s say pebble) is accelerated close to velocity of light, its mass increases infinitely…
But starting-point must be the question: has any independent object (I called it single system above) inner capability to accelerate itself, and even to the speed close to that of the light?
Definitely nope!!!
The only kind of motion for the object with mass is free fall (striving to the “rest”, and as I mentioned above even turning the heavenly bodies on their axes is passive process, caused by expansion of space), and if you need to accelerate object to the speed close to that of the light, you must apply outer force of any kind to it (fuel combustion, mechanical influence…).
Also only kind of motion for expended matter is striving to opposite direction of free fall (the word opposite is used with both: direct and figurative meaning), i.e. has behavior, radically opposite to that of the object with mass, (i.e. striving in this case is active process) so I repeat that when any object is moving with the speed close to the speed of light, it ceases to exist as solid object by turning into the form of light, i.e.
Not even any object can move with a speed of light and have mass at the same time.

Originally Posted by TinyTree So a photon apparently does not have any mass. However, an object with mass, emitting a photon, must lose mass according to e=mc2. Now this photon must climb out of the gravitational well of this same mass, causing a redshift of the photon, reducing its frequency.

Yes, photon apparently has no mass, but an object with mass, emitting a photon, mustn't always lose mass: in case of single, or independent system told by you above is right (as energy of single system e=Constant=mv2, i.e. m~1/v2, i.e. for single system mass is inversely proportional to speed), but if single system is connected to any kind of generator, then mass of single system doesn’t change in process of emitting of photons, i.e. it ceases to be a single system in this case, and remains only “conductor of photons” from the generator, i.e. any single system (solitary, independent object) has its ceiling of speed and it equals to speed of light without mass, but has as well its ceiling of mass “at rest”.

Originally Posted by TinyTree Now if this same photon is absorbed somewhere else, it increases the mass of the new object- DECREASED BY THE AMOUNT OF REDSHIFTING WHICH TOOK PLACE IN THE GRAVITATIONAL WELL. So there it is- objects are losing mass and energy, and it is not conserved. Is it? What is going on?

Yes, the speed of photon lessens so its mass begins to increase from zero according to the formula m=e/c2, as e must be Constant for single, or independent system (separate amount of photons), and when the speed ultimately turns into mass, the latter is added to the mass of new object.
But for the whole universe, the quantity of energy of contracted matter equals to quantity of energy of expended matter, i.e. general balance is preserved, so general “preciseness” doesn’t change in any case.

[Nobody]

I think because of the fact that an electron/positron is created from a photon that is warped by the gravitational force/strong force of its center, it can be said that the electron/positron is essentially "travelling" at the speed of light.

Mass is inertial mass, essentially photonic inertia or "gravity," that is relative to velocity, and the faster an object travels, obviously the more inertial mass will be created. So that has to mean that the photonic inertia from all light/energy is inifnite, and thence the universe must have infinite mass/density.