[Sapius]

.
Sorry, Michael, been away for a while. Generally I do not get on the net on a daily basis either, and I do travel on short notices quite a bit. So please pardon my sudden disappearances

Sapius: Can any point be any freer and complete than that once it realizes its own nature?! We all actually are; it is but a matter of realization; for there is no end to from where "I" start, in any which direction or sense. Michael: Good question Sapius,I would suggest that as we realize our own nature,rather than being freer,(which no doubt we certainly would be)we would "inherit" a wider sense of responsibilty.

It’s not a question really, Michael, and by ‘free’ I do not mean free from responsibilities, but in fact in realizing actually how free one is, the greater the seriousness of responsibilities is one aware of, and thence ones actions conform to humble rationality.

Realizing ones true nature brings humble freedom inevitably.

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[Sapius]

Graham:

very interesting reading sir

I’m glad that Michael and yourself appreciate my contribution.

this causing in some case instinctive response like the seeing of the tiger "Fight or Flight" learned rote ... to its purpose of survival and the instinctive factor being based on this is similar to the bases of wave form on the molecular levels but not the same i do not know or i read you out of context ...

No, I think you read me correctly, but for some subtle points that I will elaborate on.

but then we come to the full separate concept of consciousness ... the ability to comprehend the awareness in such intricate way of sentient being so well described in sociology and anthropology that we feel it is separate but in reality it must in its dependence on what we are sensing be a part of the Whole ...

With all due respects to Michael; the “whole” does not cannot be applied to Totally, except through the fulfilling of an emotional void, but cannot logically be a “whole”, because of its infinite nature. Who knows, there could possibly be infinite numbers of big bangs other than our bubble of a big bang. Is there any scientific theory that says that that is not possible? I don’t know.

Being a Scientist, I think it will be easier for you to comprehend when I say that every sensed quantum particle has to necessarily be “aware” of its environment before it detects a “sensation” and reacts accordingly. Now, it is not that it will react exactly in the same given different conditions, so that tells me that it has the potential to react differently given different conditions, and “senses” its environment before it reacts, hence is also an ‘observer’ just as anything else. However, the “choices” it has may be very limited due its dimensionally limited structure and complexity, and may be quite helpless to exercise it’s potential unless triggered by certain causal conditions.

Now, what are we but a bunch of particles and elector-chemical signals, and I have reason to believe that this primitive and inherent “awareness” is what manifests as ‘consciousness’ of various degrees in different things depending on its complexity, say from an amoeba to us.

But in us, it has much a higher potential of variables open to it, including logical self-awareness, through abstract thinking, and intellectual creativity that can even manipulate its environment in its favor, ‘physically’! It is no more a thing that simply reacts to its environment in limited manner, but is capable of ‘internal’ abstract though process which evolution has obviously favored, and can now survive extreme cold and heat, by creating climate controlled shopping malls!

I cannot really lay down the big picture I see in a few posts, and each piece of a jigsaw puzzle holds different valuable information, where Science, Mathematics, Philosophy, Psychology, Physiology, and all subjects are but a jigsaw piece of a big picture that needs to be understood.

the organization skills of a sentient being allows for the reaction to be controlled and even give no necessitated reaction leading me to believe stimulus and response is not the way to go in understanding conscious will being applied to awareness ... at least in any one saying it is all such ... we are molding and as such are seemingly masters of the universe persona ...

Humm….

[Sapius]

Michael; Hi again,

From absolute unity there emerges via a point or as some may call a singularity or as some occultists call it the Protyle Atom,it matters not what you call it,from the "point" a line is "drawn" and is Willed into spin and spilts into opposing yet unified forces-YING and YANG from these two primary vortexes all else does flow from.

I understand what you are saying here, but I have a few queries...

What makes you conclude there is an ‘absolute’ unity from which all else emerges? After all, we are in the ‘all else’ realm and cannot BE in any other; so is it not possible that ‘an absolute’ is a product of a thought that emerges from the ‘all else’ itself, rather than that other way around?

And is it not possible the we imagine an ‘absolute’ simply to satisfy the emotional void created by a helpless feeling in the face of existence that we cannot control but have a living desire to? By hook or crook try and transcend that without which consciousness and existence is impossible?

Why can’t interactivity, interdependency, inter-creativity itself be an absolute holographic system or process? With absolutely nothing underlying such a system, except it own well balanced dynamic system itself?

Why does one fell, or think, that there is a need for something other than a thing-to-thing interactivity? Why should ‘singularity’ necessarily mean ONE absolute point when there could be interactivity going on within, which seems reasonable since there was a huge reaction, and that couldn’t have happened if some sort of activity was not going on within, and for that there has to necessarily be at least two opposing forces interacting and hence a reaction.

.

[Sapius]

Melanie, Hi!

I’m not sure in which thread I found this post a few days ago, so I will post it here since it seems relative.

CONSCIOUSNESS We come from the unknown and we go on moving into the unknown. We will come again; we have been here thousands of times, and we will be here thousands of times. Our essential being is immortal but our body, our embodiment, is mortal. Our frame in which we are, our houses, the body, the mind, they are made of material things. They will get tired, they will get old, they will die. But your consciousness, for which Bohidharma uses the word 'no-mind' - Gautam Buddha has also used the word 'no-mind' - is something beyond body and mind, something beyond everything; that no-mind is eternal. It comes into expression, and goes again into the unknown. This movement from the unknown to the known, and from the known to the unknown, continues for eternity, unless somebody becomes enlightened. Then that is his last life; then this flower will not come back again. This flower that becomes aware of itself need not come back to life because life is nothing but a school in which to learn. He has learned the lesson, he is now beyond delusions. He will move from the known for the first time not into the unknown, but into the unknowable. If you do not know what happiness is, you will never be unhappy ... U.G. Krishnamuri

Its strange that you use UG’s quote below, who totally rejected all the enlightened and prophets, and yet profess what I think you believe in your above post.

.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Sapius Michael; Hi again, I understand what you are saying here, but I have a few queries... What makes you conclude there is an ‘absolute’ unity from which all else emerges? After all, we are in the ‘all else’ realm and cannot BE in any other; so is it not possible that ‘an absolute’ is a product of a thought that emerges from the ‘all else’ itself, rather than that other way around? And is it not possible the we imagine an ‘absolute’ simply to satisfy the emotional void created by a helpless feeling in the face of existence that we cannot control but have a living desire to? By hook or crook try and transcend that without which consciousness and existence is impossible? Why can’t interactivity, interdependency, inter-creativity itself be an absolute holographic system or process? With absolutely nothing underlying such a system, except it own well balanced dynamic system itself? Why does one fell, or think, that there is a need for something other than a thing-to-thing interactivity? Why should ‘singularity’ necessarily mean ONE absolute point when there could be interactivity going on within, which seems reasonable since there was a huge reaction, and that couldn’t have happened if some sort of activity was not going on within, and for that there has to necessarily be at least two opposing forces interacting and hence a reaction. .

Interesting questions Sapius,I conclude that "we" emerge from absolute unity because
that is the indication given by the "spirit within the form"yes we are in the all else realm,
already,however within this relative physical universe we "imagine" that we are individual
beings and this leads to that understanding.

In truth we are but thoughts "held" within the absolute mind.
It is rather the other way round Sapius,it is us that are imagined,NOT the Absolute!

There are indeed two "opposing" forces as you rightly say Sapius,those of Ying and Yang
this gives us the positive and negative fields with the implied neutral balancing the universal force.

As for singularity being just one point,well,the one point seems about right to me,however,there could be more than one I suppose,not sure about that one?

regards michael.

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Sapius Graham: ... Humm….

hello again sapius,

yes i do find your thoughts most interesting and informative and thank you for not getting into the heavy terms and equations that are to me best left to others more programed in such degree ... that would lead me to many hours of study with out a clock ...

quote "Being a Scientist, I think it will be easier for you to comprehend when I say that every sensed quantum particle has to necessarily be “aware” of its environment before it detects a “sensation” and reacts accordingly. Now, it is not that it will react exactly in the same given different conditions, so that tells me that it has the potential to react differently given different conditions, and “senses” its environment before it reacts, hence is also an ‘observer’ just as anything else. However, the “choices” it has may be very limited due its dimensionally limited structure and complexity, and may be quite helpless to exercise it’s potential unless triggered by certain causal conditions." unquote

i would like to subscribe to this in the thought it is not so much that the form necessarily be aware but has the potential to be aware, on its own level of capability governed by its persona form identity and as you state that it will not react the same is understood knowing the vectoring of forces that can take place by circumstance shape and/or the placement and in sensing which i believe must be dependent instantaneous to the force not before ... the force having degree measurable outside the event but in the event instantaneous .... saying this in the observation only as the collection of particle form gathers does the option arise with ability to react or not ... and have a delay indicative of consciousness primal or developed ...

2. quote "But in us, it has much a higher potential of variables open to it, including logical self-awareness, through abstract thinking, and intellectual creativity that can even manipulate its environment in its favor, ‘physically’! It is no more a thing that simply reacts to its environment in limited manner, but is capable of ‘internal’ abstract though process which evolution has obviously favored, and can now survive extreme cold and heat, by creating climate controlled shopping malls!" unquote

and to we should not leave out the miracle files every doctor has ...

the final
quote ... humm unquote ... the ponder of you have in i wrote was thus in reference to the reading of the way the brain is no longer considered formed at any age ... the defragmentation effect after learning and growth of new cells and paths ... sort of thing ... developemental issues in the quicker sence then evolution may provide easier notation of ... and

(thoughts under developement)
Peace! Graham

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Sapius Melanie, Hi! I’m not sure in which thread I found this post a few days ago, so I will post it here since it seems relative. Its strange that you use UG’s quote below, who totally rejected all the enlightened and prophets, and yet profess what I think you believe in your above post. .

checked the subject name misspelled to my search engine and i agree with you .. there is a lot of this here ...? good pick up!
Graham

[mkirkpatrick]

We are immersed within an ocean of consciousness,so it is hardly surprising that at times
we cannot see it,bit like the fish asking another where the water is!Confusion is created by tracking things that each have differing names and properties.Energy,matter,force,
light,magnetism,particles,atoms,quarks,mind and consciousness,what have all the things
in common?Well "they"all arise from the same BED,and are ALL basically and
fundamentally the same.


First born from the will is motion where energy arises from this becomes the "field" "ocean" from where consciousness is activated and brought into the evolutionary arc
from which we are currently evolving through.

The theory of everything is a misnomer and causes confusion,rather it be called the theory of thing,this would bring the focus into sharp detail and reveal the inner working
of the outer appearance,much as a laser is intensely focussed coherent light,so would
our research become so much more intense.


regards michael.

[G_burnett]

Step into the ocean as it laps at your chin
for stepping, will begin your journey.

Raise your arms above you,
for raising, is to sense
know of the wave.

Open your hands to the sky
opening, setting free
the spirit.

Lift your head into the heavens
for lifting, open eye lids
can close

Hear then soft blown breeze
your mind at ease,
near sleep
somewhere else!

this is stepping forward to the unknown,
raising our arms in surrender,
opening our grasp to accept,
closing our eyes to preconception,
choosing by will to discover,
and see, really see
in the "whole."

GPMB

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by G_burnett Step into the ocean as it laps at your chin for stepping, will begin your journey. Raise your arms above you, for raising, is to sense know of the wave. Open your hands to the sky opening, setting free the spirit. Lift your head into the heavens for lifting, open eye lids can close Hear then soft blown breeze your mind at ease, near sleep somewhere else! this is stepping forward to the unknown, raising our arms in surrender, opening our grasp to accept, closing our eyes to preconception, choosing by will to discover, and see, really see in the "whole." GPMB

Thanks Graham,wonderful words,ideas encapsulated within the written word?The word
was upon the face of the deep!

regards michael.