[Mohan.C]

Necessity drives evolution, evolution drives intelligence.
Now, all that I want to know- "Is it consciousness that recognizes necessity"
I think it is a YES.

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by G_burnett I picture and as such being then a platform of perception the issue could we not give some of Michael a lets say ... credence? Just a thought or maybe you could explain further please? TY Peace ~ Graham

Graham ..... Michael and I are old friends from way back. He takes no notice of me whatsoever when I charge in to his area of expertise.

Knowing this, I was just having a dig at him .... LOLOL

But, to answer your question, if we make perception the base platform how are we to define it. 'Knowing that we Know' does not seem a very accurate description of perception. I could just as easily define it as 'To look behind the curtain of the perceived reality'

Notice the word perceived .... the verb form of the noun perception. Once you start using a verb to describe its own noun you are in an ever deepening spiral.

My opinion is that this spiral will eventually lead to a simple biological explanation as the base platform for what we describe as life and consciousness. My definition of Consciousness is Sapience. Sapience, I believe to be a biological effect of Evolution.

Just my thoughts .... This is what I was trying to point out to that old Turkish Delight Mkirkpatrick. rotflmao

Consciousness may well hold the key to the TOE, but Evolution holds the Key to the Cosmos.

cool bananas ... greg

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Necessity drives evolution, evolution drives intelligence. Now, all that I want to know- "Is it consciousness that recognizes necessity" I think it is a YES.

hi Mohan

this seems to be in conflict with free will having anything to do with it or not in the sense of one going to a better place not running from where he left but then it seems to be covered in your next statement being will then, is a matter of wanted necessity by consciousness?

Hmm maybe you should explain intelligence relative to the post?
This is very interesting to me.
Peace~ Graham

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Graybeard ... But, to answer your question, if we make perception the base platform how are we to define it. 'Knowing that we Know' does not seem a very accurate description of perception. I could just as easily define it as 'To look behind the curtain of the perceived reality' Notice the word perceived .... the verb form of the noun perception. Once you start using a verb to describe its own noun you are in an ever deepening spiral. My opinion is that this spiral will eventually lead to a simple biological explanation as the base platform for what we describe as life and consciousness. My definition of Consciousness is Sapience. Sapience, I believe to be a biological effect of Evolution. Just my thoughts .... This is what I was trying to point out to that old Turkish Delight Mkirkpatrick. rotflmao Consciousness may well hold the key to the TOE, but Evolution holds the Key to the Cosmos. cool bananas ... greg

TY for your reply sir,

I have had some reserve thoughts of michael at times leaning on one side of the fence to much but wrote it off to the effects of Turkish coffee habits perhaps, hee hee.

I subscribe to the transference of energy in the micro being no different then in the macro and by the same reason. Consciousness is to me the same effect going on to varied degree but of little if any difference to the micro event, Evolution of the event to such said varied degree in the human persona as the case in point, has reached to varied quantifiable extent varied extent to where some form are more then the other. This may manifest in identify in the term intelligence but i must humbly subscribe to say it goes beyond the quantifiable terms used eg IQ.

Some form exists after death for the hypotheses of the consciousness will to interact? Yes unproven, but such smoke to the indication of fire would have to come under the evolution umbrella of thought.

oh my, there i go again, there in I agree with you in my babbling bored Saturday night keyboard use that evolution will see some getting the key to the Cosmos before others.

TY for the bananas OhwhoooOhwhooOhwho

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by G_burnett Some form exists after death for the hypotheses of the consciousness will to interact? Yes unproven, but such smoke to the indication of fire would have to come under the evolution umbrella of thought.

Nice post Graham ..... In your statement that 'some form exists' you use the words hypotheses and unproven. Evolution, while possibly not strictly proven according to some, can not really be described as an hypotheses.

Given these two alternatives, and all else being equal, then the simpler is Evolution (because it has no requirement for existence after death) .... you would have to agree the wise betting money will all be on my horse .... LOL

cool bananas ... greg

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Nice post Graham ..... In your statement that 'some form exists' you use the words hypotheses and unproven. Evolution, while possibly not strictly proven according to some, can not really be described as an hypotheses. Given these two alternatives, and all else being equal, then the simpler is Evolution (because it has no requirement for existence after death) .... you would have to agree the wise betting money will all be on my horse .... LOL cool bananas ... greg

Ty Greg

If we go to the point of death as a final point of existence of the ovulating sapience, and I would not go there quite yet being sun is expected today,
the form thereof sapience AD may by some regiment of theology professed in rote to date go through stages of AD development's such as described in the Dante's Hell as the hypothesizer to reach different levels of then evolving form or not, but does this mean it was from before the event of no longer be sapient or does sapience extend beyond really the question here. Death is not an ending would be the general subscription as it is just a change of form and the form of energy having no change of identity as such would perceptible be requirement for change if for nothing more then to return to a prior to death coexistence to go further next time into the cosmic realm? the only thing we find in reincarnation brought back is empathy to my study and what more is needed?

That would imply will which is debatable from many horses being ridden i agree as the direction sought may be only achieved through a return and sapience of some form existent here an now?

One requirement found by the evolution here and now may be to help others by empathic response sort of thingy? Aha, but as what, "a sage," say He. It is morning birds i hear having tasted Black Turkey this early AM so I am allowed saying that. lol

Best regards sir. I dare not correct your spelling ... and

I choose the second to worse odds knowing the owners of horses hold them back to get more on a win therefore can say I do not gamble as betting was stated would imply, actually i have been given the maximum allowed time out to the casinos here of three years because i do not gamble. lol
Peace~ Graham

[r.p.bibra]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Graham ..... Michael and I are old friends from way back. He takes no notice of me whatsoever when I charge in to his area of expertise. Consciousness may well hold the key to the TOE, but Evolution holds the Key to the Cosmos. cool bananas ... greg

At last spirituality and science have merged, only details need to be worked out! Love & regards.ls.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by r.p.bibra At last spirituality and science have merged, only details need to be worked out! Love & regards.ls.

Absolutely right there my brother,merge the two and the secret of fusion will stand revealed!



regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Graham ..... Michael and I are old friends from way back. He takes no notice of me whatsoever when I charge in to his area of expertise. Knowing this, I was just having a dig at him .... LOLOL But, to answer your question, if we make perception the base platform how are we to define it. 'Knowing that we Know' does not seem a very accurate description of perception. I could just as easily define it as 'To look behind the curtain of the perceived reality' Notice the word perceived .... the verb form of the noun perception. Once you start using a verb to describe its own noun you are in an ever deepening spiral. My opinion is that this spiral will eventually lead to a simple biological explanation as the base platform for what we describe as life and consciousness. My definition of Consciousness is Sapience. Sapience, I believe to be a biological effect of Evolution. Just my thoughts .... This is what I was trying to point out to that old Turkish Delight Mkirkpatrick. rotflmao Consciousness may well hold the key to the TOE, but Evolution holds the Key to the Cosmos. cool bananas ... greg

Quite so you Aussie drongo,and evolution will reveal through the Cosmos that consciousness is the "outrider" of the will,which arises within LIFE ITSELF,which to us mere
immortals is but a darkened FLAME!

regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

Some problem occurred so I've posted again below....