[mkirkpatrick]

Lloyd, many thanks for your comments and insights. I agree we already have the the answer buried within the Quests writings. It is a matter of collating all this into a presentable form or equation. There are several of you on this forum who are able to do this, alas I am not one of them, I am totally hopeless at that form of mathamatics, but as you so rightly said Lloyd, if you and the others, Antonio, I know is working hard to find the right equation, put your caps on I am confident that it will be done. So, all you on this TOE-QUEST forum who are skilled in the art of expressing mathamatics in the form that will solve this theory, please step forward, set aside your ego for a bit, and join together in this quest to solve the T.O.E.

kind regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by <<<GUILLE>>> Lloyd, There are lots of things in science which have not been proved with mathematics and yet which are believed as true. Science cannot find truth, it can only find the adecuate propositions according to the space-time point it's in.

Guille, you said it. "Believed as true", is not science, and never has been. Science is mathematical proofs and nothing more. It has never tried to cover all truths. It may never. I don't know. No one does, yet... The "space-time" point much of the modern world makes, is one of the major problems with today's truth and confusion. Separate space-time into its true component concepts, and the light will come on...

You say: "Light is all. All is light. Light has no paradoxes." Then Hitler is light, thus we are all nazis, and Nazism has no paradoxes (so it's true). If you believe in your statement you must believe in my example...

I more than believe, I know my and your statements are true, except for your Nazi exaggerations of the implied conceptual intentionality. The past is sanctioned by god to be true. It may be ugly, but it is still true... The singularity has no real paradoxes, yet seemingly to us simple mortals, exhibits many falsehoods of understanding. Guille, stop trying to win points and go to your own very important "analogous universalization" process. This has true promise. You said you were going to write something about it. Where is It? I'm waiting... The future is much more fun to discuss, than the dead unchangable past...

Guille, don't get so upset with me. I feel you are one of the most important members on this forum, for your vast philosophical abilities, and unique perspective of. Come on, work with me and please expand on Anun. Don't be imply/talking about giving up when you are almost there...

regards

p.s.
Just for something extra for everyone to sink their teeth into, I offer these quotes posted from another site. I think them quite appropriate to center the ideas more toward the scientific initiative, we all seek...

(Gottfried Leibniz, 1670) Reality cannot be found except in One single source, because of the interconnection of all things with one another. ... It is a good thing to proceed in order and to establish propositions (principles). This is the way to gain ground and to progress with certainty. ... I hold that the mark of a genuine idea is that its possibility can be proved, either a priori by conceiving its cause or reason, or a posteriori when experience teaches us that it is a fact in nature. ... a distinction must be made between true and false ideas, and that too much rein must not be given to a mans imagination under pretext of its being a clear and distinct intellection.

(Aristotle, 340BC) Metaphysics is universal and is exclusively concerned with primary substance. ... And here we will have the science to study that which is, both in its essence and in the properties which, just as a thing that is, it has. ... That among entities there must be some cause which moves and combines things. ... There must then be a principle of such a kind that its substance is activity.

(F.H. Bradley, 1846-1924) We may agree, perhaps, to understand by Metaphysics an attempt to know reality as against mere appearance, or the study of first principles or ultimate truths, or again the effort to comprehend the universe, not simply piecemeal or by fragments, but somehow as a whole.

(Erwin Schrodinger. 1930s) What we observe as material bodies and forces are nothing but shapes and variations in the structure of space. Particles are just schaumkommen (appearances). ... The world is given to me only once, not one existing and one perceived. Subject and object are only one. The barrier between them cannot be said to have broken down as a result of recent experience in the physical sciences, for this barrier does not exist. ... The scientist only imposes two things, namely truth and sincerity, imposes them upon himself and upon other scientists.

(Fritjof Capra, 1972.) The most important characteristic of the Eastern world view - one could almost say the essence of it - is the awareness of the unity and mutual interrelation of all things and events, the experience of all phenomena in the world as manifestations of a basic oneness. All things are seen as interdependent and inseparable parts of this cosmic whole; as different manifestations of the same ultimate reality.

(David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980) The notion that all these fragments is separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion. Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. It is my firm belief that the last seven decades of the twentieth century will be characterized in history as the dark ages of theoretical physics. ... The quantum world is a world of waves, not particles. (Carver Mead, Professor Emeritus at Caltech. Received $500,000 Lemelson-MIT Prize in 1999)

Physics constitutes a logical system of thought which is in a state of evolution, whose basis (principles) cannot be distilled, as it were, from experience by an inductive method, but can only be arrived at by free invention. The justification (truth content) of the system rests in the verification of the derived propositions (a priori/logical truths) by sense experiences (a posteriori/empirical truths). ... Evolution is proceeding in the direction of increasing simplicity of the logical basis (principles). .. We must always be ready to change these notions - that is to say, the axiomatic basis of physics - in order to do justice to perceived facts in the most perfect way logically. (Albert Einstein, Physics and Reality, 1936)

When forced to summarize the general theory of relativity in one sentence: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter. (Albert Einstein)

Physical objects are not in space, but these objects are spatially extended (as fields). In this way the concept 'empty space' loses its meaning. ... The field thus becomes an irreducible element of physical description, irreducible in the same sense as the concept of matter (particles) in the theory of Newton. ... The physical reality of space is represented by a field whose components are continuous functions of four independent variables - the co-ordinates of space and time. Since the theory of general relatively implies the representation of physical reality by a continuous field, the concept of particles or material points cannot play a fundamental part, nor can the concept of motion. The particle can only appear as a limited region in space in which the field strength or the energy density are particularly high. (Albert Einstein, Metaphysics of Relativity, 1950) (GH - Just need to change from continuous spherical fields in space time to spherical waves in continuous space - then you unite Quantum Theory with Relativity - search mathematical physicist Milo Wolff, he deduces this with maths logic.)

GH - And because he worked from continuous fields rather than discrete standing wave interactions - well this explains why Einstein also wrote;

All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, 'What are light quanta?' Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken. . I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e., on continuous structures. In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

[HappytheStripper]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick Lloyd,many thanks for your comments and insights,I agree we already have the the answer,buried within the Quests writings,it is a matter of collating all this into a presentable form,or equation. kind regards michael.

Go to the bottom of the forums Michael and there is a space for this to be done.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by <<<GUILLE>>> Newton, Maxwell, Einstein, Feynman... They tell us how forces work, how they interact with matter, how they interact amongst themselves, the cause and consequence... But they don't tell us the 'being' of the forces. This is because that is a philosophical question. And here is an important point from me: I've always stated the TOE needs both science and philosophy. By science I didn't mean the classical idea of science, and by philosophy I didn't mean the classical metaphysical idea. The philosophy which is requiered in the TOE is that which must talk about the natural concepts, and mixed with the science that talks about the natural concepts, we can acheive the TOE. This will be the new form of natural philosophy, which is the old name for physics, it is what is needed for the TOE.

Guille, I agree with you that this is the most important point which must be carried into creating any TOE. Thanks for making the point.

regards

[mkirkpatrick]

Conscious intelligence manifesting as many, but contained in one, all the apparent diversity merges into the one source when traced back deep enough we are on the brink of unification the solution to the toe is at hand, just a few more waves to squeeze through the mangle! Can toequest make history yes it can! Will it be accepted by those in their ivory towers, probally not, but I am sure it will be accepted by many. The hour draws neigh.

kindest regards michael

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by HappytheStripper To quote the great C. G. Jung: “Indeed, it is becoming ever more obvious that it is not famine, not earthquakes, not microbes, not cancer but man himself who is man’s greatest danger to man, for the simple reason that there is no adequate protection against psychic epidemics, which are infinitely more devastating than the worst of natural catastrophes. The supreme danger which threatens individuals as well as whole nations is a psychic danger. Reason has proved itself completely powerless, precisely because its arguments have an effect only on the conscious mind and not on the unconscious. The greatest danger of all comes from the masses, in whom the effects of the unconscious pile up cumulatively and the reasonableness of the conscious mind is stifled. Every mass organization is a latent danger just as much as a heap of dynamite is. It lets loose effects which no man wants and no man can stop. It is therefore in the highest degree desirable that a knowledge of psychology should spread so that men can understand the source of the supreme dangers that threaten them. Not by arming to the teeth, each for itself, can the nations defend themselves in the long run from the frightful catastrophes of modern war. The heaping up of arms is itself a call to war. Rather must they recognize those psychic conditions under which the unconscious [tsunami-like] bursts the dykes of consciousness and overwhelms it.”

Excellent choice of Jung's quote, Maria. I believe Jung to be one of the most important minds in the answer of any TOE. Logic would have to stand back a hundred years without him. I mean psychological logic as compared to philosophical logic, which are too often falsely intermingled. Edmond Husserl was also very clear in this very point. Thanks for the post...

regards
Lloyd

[LPScott]

Well - Here I am (A statement of Consciousness) - And Yes I agree C is the Key !! But (now there's a word for you) - Reality is objective - C is realtive !The four forces - Photons - particle physics - etc. are simply our models of reality (which is objective) - To the extent that our models are representative of reality - to that extent we will be able to predict physical processes such as evolution and quantum physics. But this thing called C is (as was stated earlier) our feeling of being in reality -- is also our guide to objective reality. Sometimes our guide is "on-course" with objective reality and sometimes it leads us "off-course". To the extent that we stay "on-course" -- to that extent we will finally find TOE.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by LPScott Well - Here I am (A statement of Consciousness) - And Yes I agree C is the Key !! But (now there's a word for you) - Reality is objective - C is realtive !The four forces - Photons - particle physics - etc. are simply our models of reality (which is objective) - To the extent that our models are representative of reality - to that extent we will be able to predict physical processes such as evolution and quantum physics. But this thing called C is (as was stated earlier) our feeling of being in reality -- is also our guide to objective reality. Sometimes our guide is "on-course" with objective reality and sometimes it leads us "off-course". To the extent that we stay "on-course" -- to that extent we will finally find TOE.

A very warm welcome to you,look forward to your future posts,best regards,michael.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie Guille, I agree with you that this is the most important point which must be carried into creating any TOE. Thanks for making the point. regards

Maybe it is impossible for science or philosophy (or the mixture of these two, which is our currently most powerfull weapon against the barriers of nature) to achieve to explain the true nature of things. What if there is no true nature of the universe, of things. I agree with you on your other reply, that anun does have a future. But it is easier to say "centre on anun" than to actually do ir. At my age I have too many other wonders... But don't worry, I am working on it, the thing si that I don't philosophize in an organized way. I am like the posmodern philosophers in that I base my philosophy on observations, and I'm young, so I need to observe a lot as to ahve the minimum for thought creation. And also I don't have many with whom to discuss and philosophize. The best members in this forums are physics thinkers, not philosophers (antonio, dave...). I'm trapped until I go to university, cause then I will have people with the same interests as me around me. I've been out on vacation that's why I coudln't reply back. But let's not change the topic in this thread.

[mkirkpatrick]

Welcome back young man, we need your valuable insights and contributions the main thrust of this thread must not be lost, as you so rightly pointed out consciousness and intelligence are the key that will unlock the answer to the theory of all being revealed, that is our focus on this thread.Antonio is I feel working very hard to produce a formula that will express this idea, maybe you could help him,amigo?You are a dab hand at the equation malarky!

kindest regards michael.