[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Good post Arthur. Hmmmmm .... A minor difference. I don't know that I would go so far as to say all creatures, or attribute memory to microbes, fruit flys or maggots. My experience is that these critters have such a short lifespan that an investment in the expensive resource of memory would be counter productive. I think they just respond to surrounding stimuli. No amount of getting its wings burnt prevents a moth from flying into the light. No memory = no experience gained. This is a successful evolutionary strategy for short term life spans ... a few days or weeks. All creatures experience, but some have no memory of that experience. Creatures with short term lifespans usually breed in hundreds or thousands per mating. They can afford for some, or even many, to perish thru no memory. Creatures with long gestation periods and few or one offspring have placed a HUGE investment in a single roll of the dice. Therefore memory, though an expensive resource, is worthwhile having. As they will live a long time they will come across many dangerous situations where memory will pay off. But I do agree that we have no claim to superiority over any other creature. cool bananas ... greg

Hi Greg

Ty for the ponder.
I have to say "memory is relative."
All else is burned out of me
right now
sorry if i intruded.

Peace! graham

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by G_burnett Hi Greg Ty for the ponder. I have to say "memory is relative." All else is burned out of me right now sorry if i intruded. Peace! graham

I am glad you joined in graham.

Admittedly I am looking at a string model where each proton is a string from one end of the universe to a connection to itself back again. That makes existence an experience at right angles to the gravity or pull of life and thought relative to position in the universe as well as in life.

The key there is if we could but look along the string in either direction one could see the past or know the future. I would say it is probably as difficult as communicating just everyday ideas which is hard enough. Thought would have to be the collection of all the vibrations kept in the ether and on a level undisturbed by normal power physics.

Maybe the other things are there but just as we do not know their minds in this existence perhaps too their vibrations are not what we might know in the next, cheers

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Sentient marine I am glad you joined in graham. Admittedly I am looking at a string model where each proton is a string from one end of the universe to a connection to itself back again. That makes existence an experience at right angles to the gravity or pull of life and thought relative to position in the universe as well as in life. The key there is if we could but look along the string in either direction one could see the past or know the future. I would say it is probably as difficult as communicating just everyday ideas which is hard enough. Thought would have to be the collection of all the vibrations kept in the ether and on a level undisturbed by normal power physics. Maybe the other things are there but just as we do not know their minds in this existence perhaps too their vibrations are not what we might know in the next, cheers

Hi Mike

The storage of data may be an example in point here to get into for me. In computers, all boils down to a switch turned on or off and registered with a stored address. Given a function the computer uses the information stored transferring it to temp storage-working area where in binary form given such attributes the information changed and so on.

In what comparison does this compare to the human mind form? For the layman I am, in biology science and with some experience regards substance abuse I can give the informed information that when a memory cell is biologically destroyed the contents of the form is transferred to another cell or cells grouping that can be full already with other memory. The event of a stroke victim losing motor control is such the memory can not be accessed by normal function command by will conscious or unconscious or habit learned, once able to be drawn on to temp storage use by the function command because the memory has had its associated group ”address” changed..

The victims of such event do not learn the new address so much as they create a new one. They store the new learned function and in a varied search command reminiscing, thinking about the condition they are in for the example with other cause and effect then support the new group with finding the old memories whereby associative addressing to regrouping done to the new reference. … A relearning event then perceived is taking place here.

How in all this with more cells then all the stars we have seen can we marry memory into astral physics? The nature of transient wave particle form, prior to interaction event one and after event two and so on … till we get to quantify the human mind to some millions and millions of events taking place.

The ether or void is a state of plus one or minus one never zero. If memory was to exist in the out there, I could only picture it as being a wave variation of grouped particle form in a transient motion state of form … and I say if because I am leaning toward the belief that it does as a conscious form or conscious capable form.

Warm regards to hope this is help-full to your pondering, Peace Graham

[arthur]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Good post Arthur. Hmmmmm .... A minor difference. I don't know that I would go so far as to say all creatures, or attribute memory to microbes, fruit flys or maggots. My experience is that these critters have such a short lifespan that an investment in the expensive resource of memory would be counter productive. I think they just respond to surrounding stimuli. No amount of getting its wings burnt prevents a moth from flying into the light. No memory = no experience gained. This is a successful evolutionary strategy for short term life spans ... a few days or weeks. All creatures experience, but some have no memory of that experience. Creatures with short term lifespans usually breed in hundreds or thousands per mating. They can afford for some, or even many, to perish thru no memory. Creatures with long gestation periods and few or one offspring have placed a HUGE investment in a single roll of the dice. Therefore memory, though an expensive resource, is worthwhile having. As they will live a long time they will come across many dangerous situations where memory will pay off. But I do agree that we have no claim to superiority over any other creature. cool bananas ... greg

Hi Greg,and Graham,
I don't want to appear as giving a lecture but I would like to comment using my Universal Law.

The only access to 'the recording of experience' (memory) part of a brain is via its extensions i.e. its Environmental Monitoring System, the senses. Memory and knowledge per se are not relative, the quantity and quality etc. are relative.
Any one who understands microbes, fruit flies and maggots recognises and understands that they do have memory and that they use that memory in their endeavours to maintain their integrity's.

'Short', as in life span is relative, the skill they use in relationship to the success they achieve in their endeavours whilst responding to surrounding stimuli is a measure of intelligence. Of course, to be able to grade the intelligence one must understand, from the creatures point of view, what its endeavour is and why it is endeavouring.
When all creatures experience, the magnitude of it will be interpreted by its brain, if what appears to be an experience is not registered by its brain it will not, to it, be an experience.
Many of the creatures which breed in hundreds or thousands do so as an Evolutionary response to mass predation or because the opportunity to do so is there. I suggest that few will die as a direct result of no memory of experience, but many will die as a result of no experience. This applied and applies to N.A bison, one calf, caribou, one calf, the passenger pigeon, two egg, the wildebeest, one calf etc etc.
The only way that knowledge can be manifested is in physical activity whether it be in the activating of the muscles to vibrate the vocal cords or the finger to tap the keys or the act of just doing, that is the way it is done.
Greg, your, rationale re. 'moth burning its wings' is analogues to humans, No matter how many time they suffer the carnage of war etc, but does it mean, no memory=no experience?
Finally, I also agree that we have no claim to superiority over any other creature, and I also feel that we have no right to have a sense of superiority per se.

regards arthur

[mkirkpatrick]

Consciousness underlies all reality,and is in effect and in fact the ONLY reality!Whatever
else you drum up,the beat will always play the same tune-consciousness=reality-Period.



regards michael.

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by arthur Hi Greg,and Graham, I don't want to appear as giving a lecture but I would like to comment using my Universal Law. The only access to 'the recording of experience' (memory) part of a brain is via its extensions i.e. its Environmental Monitoring System, the senses. Memory and knowledge per se are not relative, the quantity and quality etc. are relative. Any one who understands microbes, fruit flies and maggots recognises and understands that they do have memory and that they use that memory in their endeavours to maintain their integrity's. 'Short', as in life span is relative, the skill they use in relationship to the success they achieve in their endeavours whilst responding to surrounding stimuli is a measure of intelligence. Of course, to be able to grade the intelligence one must understand, from the creatures point of view, what its endeavour is and why it is endeavouring. When all creatures experience, the magnitude of it will be interpreted by its brain, if what appears to be an experience is not registered by its brain it will not, to it, be an experience. Many of the creatures which breed in hundreds or thousands do so as an Evolutionary response to mass predation or because the opportunity to do so is there. I suggest that few will die as a direct result of no memory of experience, but many will die as a result of no experience. This applied and applies to N.A bison, one calf, caribou, one calf, the passenger pigeon, two egg, the wildebeest, one calf etc etc. The only way that knowledge can be manifested is in physical activity whether it be in the activating of the muscles to vibrate the vocal cords or the finger to tap the keys or the act of just doing, that is the way it is done. Greg, your, rationale re. 'moth burning its wings' is analogues to humans, No matter how many time they suffer the carnage of war etc, but does it mean, no memory=no experience? Finally, I also agree that we have no claim to superiority over any other creature, and I also feel that we have no right to have a sense of superiority per se. regards arthur

Hi,

nice post Arthur (endeavour or endeavor)

....you will like it here on the toe! Are we superior to the static more compressed form on incumbent form or is the compressed form more advanced to quantify existence? A rock will last longer?

just a thought lol.

Peace Graham

[mkirkpatrick]

What else is there other than Consciousness?Nought else was the swift reply!



regards michael.

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by arthur Hi Greg,and Graham, Finally, I also agree that we have no claim to superiority over any other creature, and I also feel that we have no right to have a sense of superiority per se. regards arthur

Hi Arthur, I feel we have the right to feel superior over the form that is not capable of avoiding the total degradation of form by regrouping ... I just have not found any form that does not do this, willingly or otherwise despite the attempts of some consciousness manifested to false rationalizations that some do not regroup ... ~peace Graham

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by G_burnett Somewhere there has to be a marriage of will to evolution, the actual wanting to evolve outside of necessity, this is the key to consciousness (awareness) understood, feeling good and choosing such over the bad aware of is will manifest not necessity cause, pleasure learned is better that saying necessity as the cause by itself become negated is what I am saying and I see this in varied example. If necessity was the cause evolution an effect thereof free will must be the end result of a successfully evolution .... the effect ... hmmm interesting thus said above leads to this conclusion by me an more akin to one of the monkeys at a typewriter finally hitting the keys at random achieving ... lol to this end: refinement of evolution possible? I have to move on here to another post ... please continue to share. ~best regards Graham

Necessity to evolve will be there but when the wanting to evolve is recognized it'll become a necessity. Even if there's a necessity we may choose to ignore it and die, or we can choose what we want and survive. So it is mainly what we want(it is will)

[mkirkpatrick]

Will is the first born into relativity and arises from the intent to form-alize,consciousness
is embedded within it and unfolds as evolution begins.



regards michael.