Consciousness holds the key. to the T.O.E.

[Guille]

I am working, but also occupied with many things. It's dificult to know exactly, because the idea is not clear enough as to find an equation which could be mached. Can you think of a better way to explaining it? Maybe like that I will find new tips.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Welcome back young man, we need your valuable insights and contributions the main thrust of this thread must not be lost, as you so rightly pointed out consciousness and intelligence are the key that will unlock the answer to the theory of all being revealed, that is our focus on this thread.Antonio is I feel working very hard to produce a formula that will express this idea, maybe you could help him,amigo?You are a dab hand at the equation malarky!kindest regards michael.

Michael, I thought I'd post this here so you could take a look at what Guille and I were talking about. I think this post about Guille's, mine and Dr. Hartman's ideas may go a long way toward, if not solving, at least adding a cog in the wheel of the ideas and mathematics needed to create the TOE. Our posts are only a beginning, but a beginning that seems to me to have real promise. These ideas need to be thrashed out by all of us, to see if they have merit.

Secondarily, I would mention the fact about the present mis-interpretations of mathematics, especially as to ergodicity[equilibrium theories], that already is wreaking havoc in several fields of study. Leon Walrus, a physicist-mathematician, who later became an economist in the 1800's is where this boogy-man of math goes back to. I would suggest that trying to understand a math formula for any TOE, one must first know about such fundamentals of the problems already existing in these fields. The answer to the TOE math may lie more in discovering the existing faults and incompleteness, than in trying to create new formulas on false foundations. I, and others as economists, are well aware of what we call "The Black Box of Arrow-Debreau", who were given a Nobel Prize in the early `50's for just such faulty math. Dr. Paul Davidson, at; http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/paul.htm has papers depicting this very fact, and its history. It's only one of many, we need be aware of in building new ideas and formulas. Just a primer to let you know where things are at, at the world stage level of important system maths...

Michael, I think if you and others get even slightly involved with this new area Guille and I are investigating, we may make real headway... I think Guille needs encouragement with his side of these ideas, but I assure you it's a good one... I further would suggest this is much more complex than just dreaming up quick new ideas. As an example, just think how far examples of all the world's concepts' absolutes, as fundamental subjects, can really go, just to start to wrap your head around "Everything At Once." I'm not saying it's not possible, as I think it is. It just takes extreme expansion of our cognitive, perceptual and conceptual powers. I think the universalization of conceptual intentionalities of absolutes, is an excellent place to go, i.e., what is the true universalized conceptual intentionality of a TOE?___or of several or many TOE's?

You see, maybe it's only the intentionality, we need be looking at, to create the real TOE. This seems to be the biggest conceptual area of thought I have ever come across... I know it sure has expanded my thinking. It's about comparing all concepts__ here__ there__ everywhere, and between others and nations___ and even between this and intuitive imaginal worlds. A lot of this is being done here, without the investigative subject even being defined. I think this defines it. I also noticed you mentioned intentionality more than once. The analogous universalization of conceptual intentionalities is a powerful logical, imaginal and mystical endeavor and study. What ya think?

regards,
Lloyd

P.S.
Here's sort of what I had in mind for a new thread of my own, but it fits fine here; "The Transcendental Super-Logical Intuitive Imagination of Total Unity"
I'm still fleshing out my notes on this one...

Conceptual Intentionality...
Originally Posted by <<<GUILLE>>>
Abstraction is what has taken philosophy to posmodernism (the end of abstractive philosophy). I have a theory about this, it's a bit complex. Kant was the resolution, the final point, the one that ended the discussion amongst philosophers during the 18th century. These were devided between rationalists (mostly French (Descartes leader), Italien (Spinoza leader), or German (Leibniz leader)) and the empiricists (British, who followed Berkeley, Locke, Hobbes and Hume).Then came Kant, who resolve dthe discussion by abstracting all conceptualization, defending that abstract would lead to the laws. It did, and there was idealism. Well, we can see a parallelism. 18th century-20th century. Because during the last century, the discussion between continental philosophy and analytic philosophy was in many ways parallel to the discussion amongst rationalists and empricists in the 18th cnetury. Well, the basis for the two points is basically this:
1. Hermeneutical Phenomenology, believe in a truth, A logic, a nature. Discuss about the methods and limitations of science and philosophy. Analytic philosophy.
2. Hermeneutical Existentialism, relativism and subjectivism (even nihilism), many truths, logic and rationality not usefull (or any argumentation). Discuss about the individual and the society, psicoanalysis and anthropology. Continental philiosophy.

Basically, I believe that we need another universalization tio solve this problem. Kant developed Abstractive Universalization (Abun). Well, I am developing something I call Analogous Universalization (Anun). Instead of conceptualizing by abstraction, it should and must be by analogy. This is a very complex idea, so I will give an example. Imagine you are a culturologist (if this profession exists at all) and you have encountered an entirelly new civilization. What methods should you use to understand it, deconstruct it? You might think of Kant's abstraction. Let's see an idea, an event, or anything n this new culture, abstract it so that it ends up under the same abstract concept as something from our culture. Then you can draw the law. Or you can remember Guille's post, and use analogy. See the evolution in their art, for example, and then the on in ours. Observe them and see the analogy. That is all you need, there ar eno rules no systematic programmed methodology of actions. Just analogy. It is better, because you can get rid of abstraction, you talk directly through the things themselves, just that you have still the same advantage that you got from abstraction, that you can make the laws.

What does everyone think?

Guille, you have made an excellent discovery about the problems involved in communications between different parties. I have been working in the same area and have called your analogy process, conceptual intentionality. It's basically the identical process, i.e., comparative analyses of same ideas in different people, places and things. In other words, we can discover true human values, and even an extended mathematics of, by such as inter-nation comparative analyses, in connection with the scientific axiology of notable professor Robert Hartman. Here's a post on another forum about the subject and a link to Hartman's ideas: >>Thanks for the insights. I think the area of most importance is to try and join science and religion, logic and intuition. Even though I may lean more toward science and you toward intuition, I think the far more important area is the union of the two. This must be accomplished to start to solve the Mid-East/West problem of severe religeous conflict, if the planet is to survive. As a final statement I'd like to add a response to another poster at space and motion. Here it is: This was in response to Knotty's post at: http://www.physics-philosophy-metaph...opic.php?t=411

Hi Knotty Nuf-Rumi, I enjoyed your post on Jung and its possible further connections and extensions to and of WSM. As far as I am concerned you are headed in the right direction, as I am also headed in this same direction of connecting Jungian Unconscious more to metaphysics, infinity and WSM. Just as a quick addition at this moment, more at a later date, I am looking at the entire connections between your thoughts, Geoff's and Jung's as the super-consciousness[the totality of finite and infinite facts and opinions of all minds - the abyss?] being the unconscious infinite space inter-connectedness of all these ideas. As a matter of fact I have recently been introduced to a philosophy professor of scientific axiology that may be of help to you also, as it is to my own work. I'm only in the early stages of putting my ideas all together with these many new connections and my older work, but see unbelievable possibilities of creating an entirely new mataphysics, as does the professional process philosopher who introduced me to Dr. Robert Hartman's work. I think it would be worth your time to check it out at: http://www.hartmaninstitute.org/html/MeasurementOfValue.htm

It's about using mathematics of infinity[formal second order math and logic] to prove the conceptual intentionality of infinite, intrinsic human values. It has been scientifically used since its creation in the seventies. It is sound sience, and can be interpreted beyond its present use with the addition of other fields of study, such as economics equilibrium theories, and physics'/economics' ergodicity theories, as my philosopher friend and I are now working on. It will be some time before I can comment further, but I already know it is very promising. I know it is one of the missing links between the joining of metaphysics and physics, i.e., Jung, infinite superconsciousness and WSM, also the finite and infinite worlds of other thought areas, as you mentioned, i.e., little and big. I have already realized Hartman's transfinite math corresponds easily with greater and lesser magnitudes, greatest and least magnitudes, which makes explanations much simpler. See what you think.>>

Regards,
Lloyd

Guille, my above ideas directly correspond with your analogy use ideas. I believe we are truly onto something. Maybe the solution to philosophy's central problem, the battle between the two major schools. Let me know more about what you think after checking out Hartman. I love your term Analogous Universalization. Anun.

[mkirkpatrick]

Many thanks Lloyd for your very detailed post and the hard work you and Guille are doing. I agree wholeheartly with the idea that you are trying to express. I am fairly intuitive with ideas and tracing form back to mindful intention, but I am absolutely hopeless at mathamatics! The idea of making the intangible becoming tangible is absolutely excellent and is something that I have been trying to do for years now, sometimes successfully and other times failing utterly.
The intention behind motion and form is there, mindful intentionality is everywhere for those that have eyes to see.
I will of course do all I possibly can to help in this endevour.

kind regards michael.

[HappytheStripper]

Guess I will have some reading material over the next few days

Thanks guys ... <happy wanders off to read...................>

[mkirkpatrick]

Are you saying that the universe is a mind and that all things are maifestations of thoughts of the universe.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying, we are all the product of thought made manifest!

kind regards michael.

A beacon lit on a distant hill can sent a message many miles, and cut deep into the night,the way into accepting and understanding the TOE must be akin to this,we need to dig deep into what we think is there,then go deeper, as we go into form at great depth, it seems to loose cohesion and become like a wave, go deep into the wave, way down to the absolute,way beyond the subatomic, down deeper, and deeper, gradually we may begin to see the very motioning of intent? Intentionality at the (pre-wave stage)where the ocean of mind is still? In its pre-wave format! We just have to look around and pick up anything,then look at it with increasing depth,you will then find that at infinite depth all things are exactly the same? In fact you do not need to go anywhere near the absolute depth, to begin to realize that an orange or a double decker bus, are much the same at the atomic level! Focussing at depth will aid the link up with all, and reveal the interconnectiveness of absolutely all of manifestation, and will also show evidence of consciousness with intelligent ideation made manifest.

kind regards michael.

Guess I will have some reading material over the next few days

Thanks guys ... <happy wanders off to read...................>

hurry back here Ashley we need help to solve this riddle?

kind regards michael.

[michaelrevans@mac.com]

Mind is contained within the vessel of light. www.spacecluster.org. Light is a solid form and is the smallest regular solid.(smaller than a tetrahedron) It is the stream of light that creates form. The observer arrives in the observed.

The answer to what came first the chicken or the egg is the IDEA of a chicken and an egg. www.spaceclusters.org

[Guille]

The answer to what came first the chicken or the egg is the IDEA of a chicken and an egg.

No, no, no.... Oh, no... No! No... No, no, and no...

Ideas are representations of the world. And there can be no representation of anything before it exists. That is, if we imagine a time machie, and then we build it, our idea of imagination migt have been the representation of the same thing as what the time machine we build is, but it was not about it (and the important thing about ideas is not what they are, but about what they are).

[michaelrevans@mac.com]

You may be right

[Coldcreation]

This thread is pretty cool.
I will be back...

coldcreation

[mkirkpatrick]

This thread is pretty cool.
I will be back...

coldcreation

Yes this is a really cool thread dude,and we need all the
input we can get to make it work,so my friend,Coldcreation,let your fingers
do the walking and boogie on down with some positive input to this thread.



kind regards michael.

Let us not allow this very exciting theory to pale into the shadows,we need this thread way out in the very frontline,this thread is about what this forum stands for,the discovery and answer to the theory of everything,so I appeal
to all you fellow toequesters,to post at least one idea on this thread each
time you come to this forum,we need input,fresh ideas,and more dynamic
interactions between us all.
A formula is awaiting to materialize,we just have to piece it together as a
team effort.a forum collective,of like minded toequesters!So come on gang
get posting on this here thread!


kind regards michael