Consciousness holds the key. to the T.O.E.

[Guille]

There have been many ideas exposed, some very interesting. I don't believe in universal consciousness, but I don't neglect it: if we achieve what I've always said that would be the maximum point of evolution, telepathy, then that would be a sort of supermind, and we would be able to share, directly, thoughts and feelings. Later I'll post an idea about how consciousness 'chooses' dimensions.

[mkirkpatrick]

If indeed consciousness holds the key,to the TOE.Then we need to find an acceptable way in which to turn this key,and unlock the answer that lies within.I think that the clue to this puzzle,is in realizing that there is only really one entity,that needs to be considered?That of realized consciousness That this lies quintessentially at the very heart of the theory.Words like matter,force,gravity,energy,and the many others that are used by science and physics,can still all apply!The same "apparent" effects of mass,motion, and electromagnetism,can still be measured, but they will be seen in a different light?And will all be found to trace back to the one thing, mind, realized consciousness.The main difference will be in the realization that all "things" are really one thing,and that the whole of manifested manifestation is in essence and in truth, inextricably interconnected, and intertwined and that the thing that provides the cohesive factor for this to happen is universal consciousness.
kindest regards michael

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Michael, what if consciousness is simply a subjective illusion? What if mind, in our solar system, only exists post-biosphere? What is mind? Does it even exist, or does only the brain exist? I find no proofs to any of these ontological and teleological meta-mysteries. I do feel there is much more to it than I know, I know... But, that's another story, not science.

regards...

[mkirkpatrick]

Michael, what if consciousness is simply a subjective illusion? What if mind, in our solar system, only exists post-biosphere? What is mind? Does it even exist, or does only the brain exist? I find no proofs to any of these ontological and teleological meta-mysteries. I do feel there is much more to it than I know, I know... But, that's another story, not science.

regards...

That may be so Lloyd; But what if it is not? There is plenty of evidence for mind, consciousness, it depends on whether or not you accept it! When science embraces the evidence of mindful intelligence, then instead of just scratching the surface of reality, they will find a depth of fresh understanding! In addition I think that universal consciousness was in evidence aeons before any human "brain" came on the scene!

regards michael.

[dleviwing]

Michael;
What evidence or proof of a mind consciousness are you referring to? As yet I only see statements that constitute a belief system and not a scientific collection of empirical data. This idea is just like religions; they rely on testimonial data; this kind of data only works in a courtroom, not in scientific observations. Where is your measurements??

[mkirkpatrick]

Conscious intelligence holds thekey.
Some have suggested that the word consciousness,has varied meanings to those who hear it.It seems very difficult to agree a word that is acceptable to everyone.What about intelligence?Universal conscious Intelligence,does this make the idea or theory more acceptable?Robert,you said;"The toe has to explain at a fundamental level,what the U.C.is".Okay,well let us include the word "Intelligence" into the framework of this theory,It was already there,and implied,but we seemed to be focussing on the word,consciousness,and maybe this has distracted us from the central theme?Maybe if I had entitled the thread,conscious intelligence holds the key to the toe,this would have been more precise?I have been giving this theory much thought over the past few days,and am now inclined to think that the focus needs to be now more on intelligence,and maybe less on consciousness,which hopefully will lead to less misunderstandings!Robert,If we look at some of the universal laws,like say cause and effect,the law of economy and return,the law of spin?We can surely see the signs of intelligence there,how much more basic do you want it?
more to follow.
kind regards michael.

Is measuring the law a legal pursuit???
Dave, this was a very good example of synchronicity, as you were posting on this thread so was I? And furthermore some of the points you raised in your post I was already addressing?? By the way Dave, thank you for your interest in the thread, and for your valued contribution. I think that I have made a mistake, in focusing on the word consciousness, and maybe should have called the theory, conscious intelligence holds the key to the TOE. As Robert so rightly pointed out, that the word consciousness, has varied meanings to people. Hopefully intelligence is a more acceptable term. You asked Dave, what proof was I referring to, what evidence did I have? Well if we now use the word intelligence, as I said in the previous post, intelligence has always been implied in this theory, it is just that the word consciousness has been taking centre stage up to now. I think you will agree Dave, that there is ample evidence of intelligent design, you do not need me to spell that out to you. Physics has called it the Elegant universe, for that very reason! Where are my measurements? Where indeed! That is a good question, Dave. How do you measure intelligence? Have you any ideas Dave? Is there an IQ test that will prove that there is such a thing as intelligence?? How do we prove something that we all use each day? Are not universal laws proof of intelligence? Can you not measure gravity? Can you not measure mass? Are they not all subject to this law? If they are, then Measure them! And you will have your Proof?
kind regards;
michael.

There have been many ideas exposed, some very interesting. I don't believe in universal consciousness, but I don't neglect it: if we achieve what I've always said that would be the maximum point of evolution, telepathy, then that would be a sort of supermind, and we would be able to share, directly, thoughts and feelings. Later I'll post an idea about how consciousness 'chooses' dimensions.

Where were you today my amigo, I waited around and you did not show up?I want to hear what your thoughts are on this here thread,so before you trot of to school this morning get busy posting,you have had a good rest on Sunday??

kind regards;
michael.

[Guille]

Where were you today my
amigo,I waited around and you did not show up?I want to hear what your thoughts are on this here thread,so before you trot of to school this morning
get busy posting,you have had a good rest on Sunday??

kind regards michael.

No time for rest: the whole weekend studying, I have the final exams in 10 days. But I've said many times that Spain is famous for it's fiestas, and today Monday was one of the many free days in Spain, of which nobody remembers the origin, but everybody takes off.

The ideas I got from a thread started by Antonio. We live in, and so can experience and percieve, a universe with three spatial dimensions. But our consciousness only 'chooses' one. I mean, when we obserbe two objects, imagine one is a stone five meters in front of you and the other one is a ston you are holding with your arm straight up in front of you. Your consciousness can only, and is only conciouss of the distance between the objects in depth, that is, one is far away forward and the other one is just infront. Our conciousness is never aware of the other two spatial dimension. Our conciousness never realizes one is lower placed than the other, or more to the right than the other. That is, the 2d left are not concioussly thought. Only 1. Well I believe it is the same for time. There are three time dimensions, but as they all 'look' the same, our consciousness is only aware of one, the most clear one. So all objects have a 3 distances in time, one for each dimension, but we are only aware of one, which is not always the same, sometimes it's one and sometimes is another one or the other, but they look the same for us and we call them the same dimension, that of 'before' and 'after', 'past' and present'.

And this is giving the mind an important task: that of choosing our dimensional awareness, and we should try to work out how we can prove that my hypothesis (which has a good background, I believe) that there are tree time dimensions, is true (or, not hopefully, false).

[dleviwing]

Sorry Michael, your example of proof being all around us is the same lame example used by most religions to justify the existence of a deity. Where is the scientific proof. Get the universe to take an IQ test or just agree to do so, and I'll be convinced. Face it Michael, this has no more chance of a scientific solution than any other theological belief. Maybe if it does exist and the human race survives long enough to evolve the mental awareness to communicate with it, all our dilemmas will disappear.

[mkirkpatrick]

Thank you once again for your insightful contribution to this thread,(I must say that for one who was having no more to do with this theory,that you must now have reconsidered,I thank you once again for that interest Dave) I would like to address some of the issues you raised,Dave,Where is the scientific proof? Here are three eminent men in their fields of expertise, physicist, David Bohm, I think you may have heard of him Dave,he is known globally as a leader in his field, physicist, Alan Aspect, hologram universe, and Amit Goswami,proffessor of physics at the university of Oregon,and also a member of the institute of theoretical science,(I hear he exels in measuring Dave?) The quantum measurement Paradox,The materialist paradigm, we dont have causal efficacy,we are nothing but the brain,which is made up of atoms and elementary particles.So how could a brain made of these things, convert its own possibility wave into actuality,thus the paradox.the answer is; consciousness is not made of material, "consciousness is transcendent",consciousness creates the manifest world. A downward Causation by conscsiousness, Consciousness imposes " downward Causation, (Amit Goswami)
more to follow.
kind regards michel.

[baudrunner]

I had to work, unfortunately (as all having to work is), and my vcr has audio problems so I couldn't tape the program, as much as I wanted to. However, I know that anyone with a satellite dish could get it. In any event, it's too late now but I'm sure you could probably order a transcript - do a search. I don't worry about these things because they always re-run at some appropriate time for me anyway (a downright eerie phenomenon but who's to question?)