[everymansmedium]

Hi NB:
I hope you do not mind the initials. I just have a quick description about the way I have used the word "Eden"
I used this word as a tag to indicate the entire universe that we now experience.
The Garden of Eden was a place within Eden. Maybe Earth was the garden and rather than being tossed out of it, we destroyed it as a paradise.

One other thing. There is no need to give up what is your self to merge with the one God. Like you indicate about breaking up a magnet into little pieces they each retain what is their poles. So it would be with a man. If you take one as an individual it still retains the (being = creation). It is the data that is the character. The character can be transmitted by way of an electromagnetic medium. It is not a material thing. The being exists in time. We all share the very same I AM. It is the data that this I AM has to work with that generates what ever we appear to be. This data track actually exists in a single dimensional string of space within Elsewhen. It can not be lost. In this way we are already immortal. The thoughts that resulted in what has become a theory of everything in my mind has also resulted in more than 20 years worth of speculation of how this concept would effect what we may believe about reality. It has manifested to become what on the surface appears as a religion and I believe in it in this way. However it also at its source has very good reasons to see this as more than just conjecture. I will try not to digress to far. Please understand that it is very difficult for me not to digress as I have had so much time with these thoughts.

[N0B0DY]

I only follow the implications of science, religion and philosophy, and extend them to see how well the logic sits for me. Most models and interpretations have missing pieces or pieces that have been force fitted to suit preconceived pictures people have.

I like your thoughts on the creation of present moments, John, but all moments must be dilated in order for time and space to be created. You made reference to the poles, but didn't mention the non-existent cause for poles - the dividing line required for even a single dimension to be possible. Like I tried to express previously, there can be no concept of dimensions without a non-existent differentiator, and this thread attempts to posit the differentiator as the illusory basis for everything perceived. To proclaim that what exists to individuals, cannot exist from the absolute perspective - there are no poles or to and fro.

This can bring us to the I AM that you mentioned, which I suggest is synonymous to the shared subconsciousness resulting from the illusory break in universal symmetry or the non-existent absolute state that cannot be literally broken. Everything conceivable has an opposite except non existence because it is the result of all conceivable opposites - 1-1=0 - and the zero-point distance can only be broken or stretched through dilation because relative velocities increase distance exponentially to render pif's unimaginable infinity and eternity.

Ultimately there is the "Eternal Return" which is, yes, innate madness - have a look around - that can only be transcended by eradicating the self at the deepest subconscious level. Otherwise we exist according to the dictates of the subconscious mind, which holds guilt, punishment, rewards, etc.. The infinite subconsciousness doesn't have the absolute knowledge required to properly order the fluctuating chaos within, and like the poles each individual carries with them this madness until it is surrendered. Though it takes a while seeing how the conscious mind clings to things so strongly.

[N0B0DY]

Pat,

I consider all life equal, and don't believe in superiority due to complexity or intelligence. The bacterial studies I linked to depicted a remarkable intelligence - bacteria making motors, etc. - and humans I don't think are the brightest things around, being comparative to bacteria based on varying standards makes all beings equal.

Yes I've killed insects, and some have even killed people, but it doesn't make it right.

[Profpat]

I guess we are just going have to disagree Nobody.

Do you also eat meat and fish, and wear leather,
do you feel bad about that also?

As I said I believe the Jains are honest in there belief, something the rest of the tree huggers should learn.

Best to all,

Pat

[N0B0DY]

The world could be filled with Jains, and it wouldn't change the built-in problems of nature itself.

The problem is that the world is convinced it has to eat and breathe to survive, because the mind focuses on the motion instead of the stillness in motion.

Merely eating other life forms to survive doesn't make us superior. Crocodiles wouldn't have a problem dining on you, but it doesn't make them superior I don't think.

[Profpat]

If I didn't think I was better than those life forms, I wouldn't eat them.

I think Nobody you have a contradiction in your logic.
If you really believe that all life forms are equal, then why in the hell do you eat them?

Best,

Pat

[N0B0DY]

You've never heard of cannibalism? I don't eat them, Pat.

The point is that there is an innate inequality bred throughout the universe. A neglected barbarity of justified pain only necessary to further evolve, or more accurately devolve imo, mankind.

It's a sad state of affairs, and a shameful one to boot if folks are really willing to accept the imbalanced brutality as a be-all-end-all of the "good life."

[mkirkpatrick]

"There was something formless and perfect before the universe was born

It is serene.Empty.Solitary.Unchanging.Infinite.Eternall y present.It is the mother
of the universe" ..Tao Te Ching.




regards michael.

[Fluent Piffle]

Originally Posted by Profpat

If I didn't think I was better than those life forms, I wouldn't eat them.

I think Nobody you have a contradiction in your logic.
If you really believe that all life forms are equal, then why in the hell do you eat them?

Best,

Pat

This is the only part of Nobody's 'logic' that doesn't have contradiction!


pif.

[N0B0DY]

I usaully try to point out where I see a contradiction, explaining the reason relatively elaborately, pif.

Where do you find I contradict myself - 1-1=0 - and for what reason?

Never wise as they say to swallow everything whole, but to verify things experientially for oneself.

"'I know Giri Bala well,' Sthiti Babu told me. 'She employs a certain yoga technique which enables her to live without eating. I was her close neighbor in Nawabganj near Ichapur.1 I made it a point to watch her closely; never did I find evidence that she was taking either food or drink. My interest finally mounted so high that I approached the Maharaja of Burdwan2 and asked him to conduct an investigation. Astounded at the story, he invited her to his palace. She agreed to a test and lived for two months locked up in a small section of his home. Later she returned for a palace visit of twenty days; and then for a third test of fifteen days. The Maharaja himself told me that these three rigorous scrutinies had convinced him beyond doubt of her non-eating state.'

"Giri Bala has never sought an inaccessible solitude for her yoga practices," Lambadar Babu went on. "She has lived her entire life surrounded by her family and friends. They are all well accustomed now to her strange state. Not one of them who would not be stupefied if Giri Bala suddenly decided to eat anything! Sister is naturally retiring, as befits a Hindu widow, but our little circle in Purulia and in Biur all know that she is literally an 'exceptional' woman."

http://www.ananda.org/inspiration/books/ay/46.html