T.o.N. (Theory of Nothing)

[N0B0DY]

I see a problem with following and understanding F=ma and E=Fd/t, Lloyd. I thought for sure you would pick up on that. P=Fd/t, unless the carriage is incremental over Planck time - c across lP.

Photons have zero rest mass, because the definition of mass has changed from what was once relativistic mass to what is now deemed intrinsic. The Einstein/Newton debate includes this discrepancy, whether you want to admit it or not. Photons are allegedly never at rest so its rest mass is zero, but its kinetic energy (relativistic mass through motion of conversion) is non-zero.

So the scientific mass of the photon being zero equates to its mass being an abstract in motion. As strange as it may seem, if photons are brought to a halt they don't exist, and as I mentioned in message 1 there is proof of the impossibility of photonic motion - the existence of photonic quanta - found in perfect symmetry that must always equal zero - much like a balance sheet balancing at zero.

Your laws of physical symmetry is fubar, Lloyd. There wouldn't be any physical laws to begin with if it weren' t for asymmetry. A seemingly symmetrical drop of water can appear to be symmetrical from all angles until it is frozen to reveal how asymmetrical it really is. Your version of symmetry fails to account for fractional quanta that have asymmetrical properties - focusing on the macro stillness, while neglecting the micro jiggles that break symmetry. So true symmetry can only be found in the simultaneity of one measurement forward and one counter measurement backward to maintain our certain zero-point position.

As an aside, the zpe exists at both ends of the spectrum, and has enough energy to fry the entire universe. You just don't feel it because it is the same everywhere, and that gives us a clue as to how things thought to be least can be most when time is quickened.

[r.p.bibra]

[quote=Fredrick;29365]

Can I ask you, Purveyor of Knowledge, MJA, Fluent Piffle, R.P. Bibra, Mkirkpatrick, Austintorn@aol.com, Planet_Bob, Dleviwing, Magic, Eric, Infinite Consciousness, Aimtb, Mr. Nobody, and Sillysally (I read the postings back to banned Lodestar, and I hope I am not leaving any names out) to give me the pleasure of your honor, and use this model?

There can never be a scientific model of/about creation, as the creation is not the brainchild of man’s intelligence.
Just imagine, a ‘particle’ blossoming into billions of galaxies, which are roaming in the endless expanse of the sky, and to the surprise and wonder of science it is functioning in impeccable order and a classic system!
The universe is a material projection, the effect of an efficient but unknown cause; man too is a creation of nature, just like the Universe, hence an ‘effect’ of a material ‘cause’, so cannot transgress its (his) boundaries of the material universe. He is merely wasting his time in a futile search of the ‘cause’ of creation, which is not material in nature and is not there in the material world, nor it is outside of the world, as it is embedded in his pigmy form (spiritual heart), as ‘life-principle’---the consciousness which pervades the cosmos! Realize the consciousness and know thyself the secret of your existence. Ls., has no model, as he is not a scientist but a seeker of knowledge; that is why he is a member of this august form. He loves to read but rarely contribute. The field is wide open, less one ‘fool’, play on the wicket as long as you desire! Love&regards.ls.

[austintorn@aol.com]

True, we can’t see beyond the “curtain” that separates what is materialized from what causes the materializing (I’ll call it Possibility), but I hope that we can all soon see a particle materialize from the curtain and then derive some of the properties of the curtain. This is the super TOE. We may have to learn a new way of thinking if possibility is real or it could just be that the curtain forms some knots out of what’s already there and we call the knots material.

The regular TOE is to unify the four forces and this may lead us to the super TOE, or maybe not, but I agreed that our mind/consciousness is the ultimate complexity of the universe and, of course, is made of the universe.

[N0B0DY]

R.P. Bibra,

I think ancient concepts of spiritual were based on the incapacity to observe the unseen. What was invisible to them then was coined spiritual as opposed to what was in plain sight. Sort of like lightning and the sun, not really knowing what they were, they referred to them as gods. The grand God of them all, creator of sun and lightning, would be the universe itself - the seen being God's body and the unseen being God's spirit, and both being different forms of the same "substance" that we are trying to figure out exactly what it consists of.

Some scientists laugh at theologians, and some theologians laugh at scientists. I've repeatedly asked both scientists and theologians to describe exactly what the material world and spiritual world was made of respectively, and both to date have been hard-pressed to come up with an accurate answer. Yet, they continue to laugh.

[N0B0DY]

That's my intention, Austin. To go deeper than anyone has gone before into what the curtain is.

Everyone thinks they are right, at some point, and will only be wrong when they realize it. At which time they will be sure they are right until they realize that they are wrong again.

Does the universe breathe, and is the universe conscious? Why not, if "particles" can function together at any distance?

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Ahh...Nobody, you keep looking for the abstract answer, and there ain't any abstract answers, as Einstein found out by his quote, you quoted. If he or you had looked deeper into the absolute fundamental mechanics, you wouldn't need all the abstractions, to represent reality, as fundamental reality is actual substance in motion, and nothing but. Now, take this FS*M=-hffs=F, and realize it is the formula for all universal force, and there is no attracting, bonding, whatever___anywhere in the entire universe___It's all repellant Force!!! There is also no such thing as zero rest mass, as every entity in the entire universe, has at least, minimal motion, and if motion___Mass!!! At the -h level, if it doesn't move, we can't see it's heat signature___period. No movement___No X-ray image. The formula is FS=Fundamental Substance; M=Motion; -hffs=minus Planck, friction, frequency, sound; F=Force. If you truly look at the absolutely necessary fundamental motion mechanics, you'll easily see, there's no attractor possible, nor does such mechanics ever allow for such attractor___The entire universal mechanics is exclusively repulsive___Only!!! Of course, our foolish abstract brains, see magnetic, gravitational, and chemical bonding, as attraction, when in fact, it's all repulsion. The universe only supplies One Force, to create all the others. It doesn't change forces___Ever___It only changes charges of forces___Positive to negative. Now, if you try to see true mechanical substance evolution, all the way through to today, you may just see why the laws of thermodynamics require forward directed motion/distance/time, as The Only Force Possible...!!! Oh, and BTW, that just happens to be a near 0k hydrodynamic prime mover...!!!

So go looking for all your ghosts of time, anti-matter, reverse time, nothing universes, whatever___They ain't there. The universe is real fundamental force over solid matter___Everywhere...!!!

I see a problem with following and understanding F=ma and E=Fd/t, Lloyd. [So don't I. Throw the time away, you can't divide anything real by the abstract time___It don't work.] I thought for sure you would pick up on that. P=Fd/t, unless the carriage is incremental over Planck time - c across lP. [Sorry Nobody, but where and when you enter time as having validity over distance, I automatically know this to be bogus, and most likely what stumped Ol' Man Einstein, all his life. Throw time away, and use real matter distance measurements, even if the most fundamental has to be theoretical. Any theoretical model, based on real FS and real near 0k motion, just happens to work fine, all the way to us. One degree of freedom of motion, is all that's required to build a real universe from the eternally existing FS and its attendent near 0k motion, as its prime mover___First Force!!! "May the force be with you..."]

Photons have zero rest mass, because the definition of mass has changed from what was once relativistic mass to what is now deemed intrinsic. [You're just trying to abstract reality here. It can't be done. It's real solid, slightly moving FS, thus has minimal mass___Near 0k requires it. The physics texts are wrong. True matter density proves this fact.] The Einstein/Newton debate includes this discrepancy, whether you want to admit it or not. [I have stated Newton/Einstein are not the problem, the problem is the discrepancy between them and QM.] Photons are allegedly never at rest so its rest mass is zero, but its kinetic energy (relativistic mass through motion of conversion) is non-zero. [1.Boltzmann and others long ago proved the equivalence of kinetic energy, and heat/mass of a system, so your argument doesn't hold up.] [2.That isn't what the texts and math say. And, if photons are never at rest, except recently in Hau's and others' low temperature experiments, what's the point of rest mass mythology? Because the photon at c, is considered to have zero mass, that's the problem. When I watch a bunch of photons burn through a diamond, like a razor blade through warm butter, my mind says___Real Solid Mass!!!]

So the scientific mass of the photon being zero equates to its mass being an abstract in motion. [You really made me laugh on this one___Abstract in motion___I'd like to see that acid trip.] As strange as it may seem, if photons are brought to a halt they don't exist, and as I mentioned in message 1 there is proof of the impossibility of photonic motion - the existence of photonic quanta - found in perfect symmetry that must always equal zero - much like a balance sheet balancing at zero. [You better study the latest of low temperature physics experiments, from Hau's to the thousands of others around the world, and the scientific gathering, taking place in Washington State, this summer. They are not only nearly stopping photons, but recovering the information sent befor the slowing/stopping. The newest ones are using Bose/Einstein condensates of differing materials. I think there's great promise, in this work.]

Your laws of physical symmetry is fubar, Lloyd. There wouldn't be any physical laws to begin with if it weren' t for asymmetry. [NaDa, sorry, but we really part company here. Asymmetry is the old pagan traditions onward, and totally false, when applied to fundamental physics' substance and motions. The absolute over-all universal force of motion, absolutely is required to be in absolute symmetric equilibrium___The thermodynamic laws of entropy demand it so, and it's the only way the universe makes logical sense. Otherwise, you have all these abstract blind necessities, that are truly not necessary, at all. The universe started in an absolute low entropy state, and the universe will finish in the exact same absolute low entropy state___The great cycle of thermodynamics' law.] A seemingly symmetrical drop of water can appear to be symmetrical from all angles until it is frozen to reveal how asymmetrical it really is. [Sorry, water ain't FS.] Your version of symmetry fails to account for fractional quanta that have asymmetrical properties - focusing on the macro stillness, while neglecting the micro jiggles that break symmetry. [No Nobody, you just failed to recognize them. I stated the moving infinitesimal parts, of the unmoving infinite.] So true symmetry can only be found in the simultaneity of one measurement forward and one counter measurement backward to maintain our certain zero-point position. [Zero-point position___Sounds to me like, No Such Thing!!! Zero temperature position, yes. Zero-point position, no. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Nobody.]

As an aside, the zpe exists at both ends of the spectrum, and has enough energy to fry the entire universe. [This sounds like Flash Gordon. I don't think so. The total zero k universal energy, yes, but zpe, not a chance___It's Mythological Paganism.] You just don't feel it because it is the same everywhere, and that gives us a clue as to how things thought to be least can be most when time is quickened.

Nothing has to be quickened for me to realize the total dynamic power of universal energy, created by the true 0k first force. We see it every day, as hot suns, galaxies, black holes, quasars, and the universe, etc., etc...

Lloyd

p.s.
Temperature is the only force of all forces, thus is the true 5th force, uniting all the other four forces. Gravity is temperature differences between the fundamental substance motions___All the FS motions, from first to last. It's a totally thermodynamic universe, just as Einstein said, long ago...

[Infinite Consciousness]

That's my intention, Austin. To go deeper than anyone has gone before into what the curtain is.

Everyone thinks they are right, at some point, and will only be wrong when they realize it. At which time they will be sure they are right until they realize that they are wrong again.

Does the universe breathe, and is the universe conscious? Why not, if "particles" can function together at any distance?

Nobody,

QUOTE "All these fifty years of conscious brooding have brought me no nearer to the answer to the question, 'What are light quanta?' Nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he knows it, but he is mistaken. … I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based on the field concept, i.e., on continuous structures. In that case, nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation theory included, and of the rest of modern physics." (Albert Einstein)

For your information, the answer to the question,' What are light quanta?' is as follows, particles of Sound - vibrating at frequencies far higher than those here on the physical-material plane of consciousness - are producing light quanta from their vibrations - these particles of Sound are Pure life and the light they produce is conscious and intelligent.

All light comes from the vibrations of sound and the Sound at higher frequencies of vibration is life and the Light that it produces is conscious- intelligent - and alive.

Light united with this Sound at higher frequencies is living "IT" is alive and the source of all life in all planes of consciousness.

While Sound is the spirit or life itself - Light emitted from this Sound -Current at its higher frequencies - is Infinite Conscious Awareness.

The following experience occurred Friday April 20 / 07 between 4 and 5 A.M.

I had gone to bed at around 12 and woke up at 2 A.M. Could not get back to sleep so i read from a book entitled "Spirituality What It Is". At 4 A.M. i stopped reading about the Sound-Current or "Word of God" and decided to again meditate on this "Word."

Upon concentrating my attention in the eye-focus or third eye where the two eyes meet i was seeing a dark blue sky filled with an infinite number of dots or sparks of Light that were vibrating and a "Sound" that i was hearing was coming through them.

All these stars or sparks of Light were vibrating and the "Sound-Current" that i was listening to was the life that was in them that i could hear coming through them. The Light that was coming from these vibrating sounds was conscious and this essence of Light and Sound was alive. The "Tao."

The more i concentrated on listening to the "Sound" the higher the vibrations and the brighter the Light of consciousness coming from the increased vibrations of the "Sound."

This "Sound -Current" is alive and its vibrations were producing Light that is conscious. This "Sound -Current" is the separate entity called spirit that we are and "IT" is Unchangeable Permanence. This higher Light and Sound within us is conscious and with its subtle frequencies is full of intelligence - it is the actual soul within us.

The Light and Sound within us cannot be destroyed as outer matter can be destroyed. It is permanent, imperishable, unchanging, and eternal.

"IT" is the Absolute Fundamental Substance within and at the core of all matter and is the Prime Mover bringing to life and enlivening all matter. "It" is the still point around which the "Wheel of Life" revolves.

In the episode with the Cancer Girl i had experienced this conscious Light & Sound outwardly - flowing through me and i was not aware of "IT" inwardly at that particular time - but as a purposeful conscious energy that i felt as electrical and which cured the cancer girl outwardly - but in this experience of Friday April 20 / 07 i experienced this current of Light and Sound inwardly in my eye-focus and i saw "IT" and experienced "IT" as living conscious intelligent spirit and the source of all life everywhere. This is what is behind the curtain !

The Theory of Nothing is the physical-material world of illusion - a 3d hologram (in which there is no actual object) created by the mind and its thinking - an animated picture show in which each thought contains a condensed imprint of the whole physical-material universe - which is repetitively replayed over and over - until we go behind the curtain and experience Truth or the Tao.

The Theory of Everything is the "Sound -Current" or living "Word" vibrating in the core of all matter - this Sound is pure life - It is conscious and intelligent - and the source of all life in all planes of consciousness and when we experience "IT" it is the Truth in Everything and of Everything.

[Fredrick]

The Theory of Nothing is the physical-material world of illusion - a 3d hologram (in which there is no actual object) created by the mind and its thinking - an animated picture show in which each thought contains a condensed imprint of the whole physical-material universe - which is repetitively replayed over and over - until we go behind the curtain and experience Truth or the Tao.

Even though I agree with you, Infinite Consciousness, the curtain itself, as well as our illusory physical-material world do contain the principles of creation too. Whether we express our beliefs as having the essence occur on this side, within matter, or on the other side, without matter, does not change the truth. The truth transpires through everything, including the curtain, including the illusion. Seeing the truth for ourselves and others is what it is all about. And that is actually quite simple for anyone, if we find where to look.

There can never be a scientific model of/about creation, as the creation is not the brainchild of man’s intelligence. Ls., has no model, as he is not a scientist but a seeker of knowledge; that is why he is a member of this august form. He loves to read but rarely contribute. The field is wide open, less one ‘fool’, play on the wicket as long as you desire! Love&regards.ls.

You may indeed belief that Ls. has all answers in a row, r.p., yet negating the truths of others is not the best way to engage in a good conversation, since the ultimate truth reveals itself within structures and people, and the correect perspectives are therefore multi-fold. Do not put other truths down if you want to be respected yourself. You may question the other truths, but you need to deliver evidence why other truths are incorrect or incomplete, otherwise you are only impolitely blowing smoke in others' faces.
With respect,
Fredrick

[N0B0DY]

Lloyd and IC,

You guys continue to contradict yourselves when you utilize absolute and infinite, re: message 1.

"I stated the moving infinitesimal parts, of the unmoving infinite."

Yes, and continue to do so very illogically, Lloyd. That's the crux of the problem. You had told me that I was absolutely correct in my assessment of your contractive FS to create the first in waves, due logically to the near-zero-kelvin freedom allowing for motion. So far so good, until you insist to play your games and refer to it as unmoving, which is absolute-zero kelvin. And you're telling me that I want my cake and eat it too?

All games aside, Lloyd, really consider what we're saying. The absolute substance and no substance is the same exact state of immobility. The infinitesimal quanta is the result of the binary interplay of both perspectives of the "FS" state whereby, like you said, "my mind says___Real Solid Mass!!!" - the abstract made real by your subconscious mind which is DNA-coded to obey sensory stimuli.

Hau et al.'s experiments are a great example of imperfect replication, the source of mutation and evolution, where stored information (not stored at zero k, which would violate the UP) is compressed as waves and expanded as probability waves. I had thought we agreed that this universe is probablistic.

The zpe is exactly what you stated, zero-k universal energy, so I'm not sure what you're barking at there. And the kinetic energy is not rest mass, Lloyd, for crying out loud. It's the carriage of the information of the effects of "rest mass" which isn't rest mass either because all mass consists of variable energies (waves - the abstract in sensory "motion") of photons which are at rest as abstract amplitude, wavelength, frequency potentials - the absolute/relative debate, as opposed to the indeterminacy debate.

The absolute center of all matter has to be just that, IC, absolute zero kelvin - no motion and no FS. Only BS if you think it can vibrate.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Hi all, and BTW, all you guys are making over-complexity out of the simple mechanics of one physical simple-complexity. It's a three phase-space, state change physical field mechanics of the universe, which just happens to be the highest probability, producing the highest possibility, which just happens to be The Only Possiblility. Why you all want to complicate such simple mechanics, is beyond me. I think it's probably because, you just can't understand energy as matter, and nothing but; Whether space, energy, spirit, conscience, mind, soul, rock or sand, it's All Physical Matter!!! "The physical matter simply changes states___All States." It's just simply a 3-space physical field mechanics; 1.First fundamental, slow speed, dark/substance and near 0k dark energy/motion. 2.First singularity hot, high speed, visible/substance, gravity, electro-magnetism, vacuumization, weak and strong nuclear forces, and first visible light and matter, i.e., galaxies, etc. 3.The spiritual chemical/biological living matter field mechanics of the first two, combined, when the light velocity of the big-popper was allowed to evolutionarily slow/decay enough to allow life to form. What's so difficult?

You know, I think the problem may be that none of you will take the time to do the math years of true formal decay mechanics, at some 10^137 years> Do any of you realize how huge a finiteness that truly is? Even if galaxy re-constitution and star nurseries stop producing new stars and galaxies at even the conservative estimate of 10^69 years> Do any of you actually realize how huge a finiteness that, still, truly is? You do these maths, and you'll quickly see how long it takes real matter to completely decay, and inflate/expand finiteness, to an almost infinity, and when you truly realize how many light years, this final finiteness is, you then must scientifically and factually comprehend the then exposed possibility, of how long it would logically, at c, take to re-generate a new universe from scratch, then possibly, you could get it through your heads, just how long the true evolutionary universal incubation period truly IS. It's a long, long, time of trillions of years___Don't you think that's long enough for infinity, to infinitesimalize, and move to start the collection process of the infinitesimal/infinite number of particles that truly must make up the FS?

Nobody, there is no contradiction in saying "matter moves withing matter, and part of the fundamental infinite matter sits still." You only need realize, finiteness is only part of the infinitesimal/infinity, not all of it, yet, the part that's motionless, is also moving within its motionlessness. Think about it, the oceans do it all the time, it's just the mind has linguistic trouble wrapping it's logic around such a simple mechanics of ONE complexity...!!!

Lloyd and IC,

You guys continue to contradict yourselves when you utilize absolute and infinite, re: message 1.

"I stated the moving infinitesimal parts, of the unmoving infinite." [Absolutely true, Nobody. Try thinking moving parts and overall unmoving infinite sphere.]

Yes, and continue to do so very illogically, Lloyd. That's the crux of the problem. You had told me that I was absolutely correct in my assessment of your contractive FS to create the first in waves, due logically to the near-zero-kelvin freedom allowing for motion. [Absolutely true.] So far so good, until you insist to play your games and refer to it as unmoving, which is absolute-zero kelvin. [Nobody, as I stated above, parts can move, yet overall can sit still, just as we or our minds do, or so, so... You couldn't witness motion, unless part of you were still, now could you? Tis also impossible for a universe to have motion, unless part of it sits still, or near as still as near 0k possible, see what I mean. You keep wanting to pin down absolute to nothing, when in fact we know it's always one degree of freedom, as does all of physics, so please, stop trying to pin down your own abstract visions, of non-realities.] And you're telling me that I want my cake and eat it too? [Yes I am, still.]

All games aside, Lloyd, really consider what we're saying. [There are no games here Nobody, It's just the simple complexity of linguistics, when discussing the absolute ONE. I discovered this linguistic problem over some forty years ago, and no-one has truly looked at it, either epistemologically, ontologically, teleologically or meriologically, with any real solutions. ] The absolute substance and no substance is the same exact state of immobility. [No it's not, as there's no such thing as no substance, sorry, wrong.] The infinitesimal quanta is the result of the binary interplay of both perspectives of the "FS" state whereby, like you said, "my mind says___Real Solid Mass!!!" - the abstract made real by your subconscious mind which is DNA-coded to obey sensory stimuli. [No again, the abstract is always and eternally that, abstract___the imagination as un-reality, no matter how much DNA you dream up, it stays abstract, if it starts abstract, even Einstein knew this, and ended as one of his great problems___how to show real fundamental substance evolution. He couldn't see through the simple mechanics of the ONE complexity, either. When you understand it's linguistics, you'll be 90% of the way home, to the absolute truth.]

Hau et al.'s experiments are a great example of imperfect replication, the source of mutation and evolution, where stored information (not stored at zero k, which would violate the UP) is compressed as waves and expanded as probability waves. [Nobody, you're just being picky. You know very well, that when somebody says 0k, they actually mean near 0k, or one degree of freedom, since nothing else scientifically has ever been possible to produce, since the first low temperature experiments in 1935, so stop picking apart others ideas, you know are close enough to be accepted as sound.] I had thought we agreed that this universe is probablistic. [The only real universe is the highest probabilistic, only.]

The zpe is exactly what you stated, zero-k universal energy, so I'm not sure what you're barking at there. [Just the two possible linguistic interpretations of, that's all.] And the kinetic energy is not rest mass, Lloyd, for crying out loud. It's the carriage of the information of the effects of "rest mass" which isn't rest mass either because all mass consists of variable energies (waves - the abstract in sensory "motion") of photons which are at rest as abstract amplitude, wavelength, frequency potentials - the absolute/relative debate, as opposed to the indeterminacy debate. [Sorry, but abstract/relative is the imaginative state of mind only, it never exists as an entity reality. This is where you mis-interpret Einstein. He never thought the abstract or relative were real entities. He always stated measurement was always based on an unknowable ground state, he referred to as relative. He full well knew the abstract was always the abstract, and only the concept state of our theoretical thinking, and just because he never finished his physical idea of absolute reality, doesn't mean, it ain't there___As it truly is! He just couldn't connect field with physical substance___He just simply didn't realize they were ONE, and only existed in their changed phase space, state changed, realities, of higher and lower density matter states___Most people haven't, YET!!!]

The absolute center of all matter has to be just that, IC, absolute zero kelvin - no motion and no FS. Only BS if you think it can vibrate.

You're still stuck in your abstract mind state, Nobody. Wake-up___It's absolutely real fundamental spirit matter!!!

Lloyd

p.s.
I'll bet no matter how many times I state the same thing, over and over, everyone else will interpret it differently. What do ya bet? It's a simple mechanics of physical simple-complexity___Nothing more!!!