[merlin wood]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

You have a good point there MW,although I see very real signs that things are aboutto change dramatically on this front very,very soon.

[
Well I'll believe it when I see it. I've been pushing for this theory on the internet for coming up to eight years now with literally no resonse at all from any prominent physicist or comsologist.

I say the rather large sticking points are that the acceptance of such a (sufficiently developed) general theory of natural organisation by the established scientific community woukl:

(1) overthrow of quite a lot of existing theoretical physics,

(2) render many popular physics and philosophy books not much worth readng,

(3) require a major revision of a lot of text books and

(4) herald in what I call a Real World Revolution.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by merlin wood

[
Well I'll believe it when I see it. I've been pushing for this theory on the internet for coming up to eight years now with literally no resonse at all from any prominent physicist or comsologist.

I say the rather large sticking points are that the acceptance of such a (sufficiently developed) general theory of natural organisation by the established scientific community woukl:

(1) overthrow of quite a lot of existing theoretical physics,

(2) render many popular physics and philosophy books not much worth readng,

(3) require a major revision of a lot of text books and

(4) herald in what I call a Real World Revolution.

Mw Please stick with it,there is a pressure building worldwide,and new insights are
gaining ground,you have passed the seven year itch phase,soon it will be up to
scratch!

regards michael.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

I have also developed a theory amigo,"that you do not exist"so if my theory is
true,then YOU must be an imposter,and that being the case,stop this deception NOW?


regards michael.

Why? You do not understand that philosophy is not about creating systems of thoughts. That is what philosophy was. Then philosophy became the deconstruction of the systems, the ideas, the idols... And that is what it remains still. But I do nothing of those two. I observe and think. I said in my post that I don't think that the only thing that exists is the physical reality, I made an error in the post: what I meant is that I think that sub-consciousness is an illusion. Consciousness is the only reality of our mind, sub-consciousness is false, it's all thought and perception. There is no intuition, that is subject to mixing logic and experience. That's what I meant and what I think.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Guille

Why? You do not understand that philosophy is not about creating systems of thoughts. That is what philosophy was. Then philosophy became the deconstruction of the systems, the ideas, the idols... And that is what it remains still. But I do nothing of those two. I observe and think. I said in my post that I don't think that the only thing that exists is the physical reality, I made an error in the post: what I meant is that I think that sub-consciousness is an illusion. Consciousness is the only reality of our mind, sub-consciousness is false, it's all thought and perception. There is no intuition, that is subject to mixing logic and experience. That's what I meant and what I think.

Are you then saying,that there is no (sub) below or under that of surface consciousness?
And that intuition does not exist,well maybe all these ancient sages and wise people
of long ago have got it all wrong?And thatyou have some out-figured them all!
Well if that is true amigo,If I had a hat,I would doff it for you!

regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

IC, you are one of the adherents of metaphysical bs, that is always against those trying to do real science___science requires its logic to posess no magic___metaphysics includes far to much metaphysical magic___it ain't real___it's unproven religion... I'll answer your foolish questions, below...

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Andrew;
As long as mankind remains arrogant in believing his mind and consciousness is something special to the universe, he is doomed to travel the path of ignorance and eternally blinded to reality. The mind and consciousness are pure physical motions and interaction of matter. It is truly difficult for human beings to accept that they are no more important to the universe than a grain of sand on the beach.

Originally Posted by Infinite Conciousness

dleviwing,

(1) Can you explain how consciousness is a pure physical motion and interaction of matter ? Consciousness is bs, as studied by metaphysicians. Being conscious is science.

(2) Can you prove this statement ? It proves itself.

(3) Has any one proven this statement ? 2 proves 3.

(4) Are you saying that consciousness is an illusion ? No, it's bs.

(5) Are you saying that matter is the only reality ? No, read the physics on this forum, and you'd realize motion is one of the absolute fundamentals of reality. The tick...tick...tick... of the cesium clock...

(6) If matter is non-conscious how can it produce consciousness ? This isn't even a sensible question. It's bs...

(7) Is there information in matter ? More bs.

(8) Is the information in matter creating consciousness ? Motion creates all___infinite/finite motion, conserved by the absolute fundamental laws of physics...

(9) What puts the information in matter ? The question is bs. All of classical, quantum/relative evolution, chemistry and biology, etc., creates thinking beings, who put their own information in, through eyes, ears, thoughts, etc... We're born an empty reception entity...just particle/waves...

(10) Is thought the information in matter ? Another bs question. Your metaphysics is up-side-down and backwards... thought is what wave/matter becomes capable of through what I wrote above...

(11) What is thought ? What you don't have...

(12) Can you answer all of these questions ? If you cannot answer these questions you remain arrogant in your belief that mind and consciousness are nothing special to the universe and you and anyone who listens to or believes you is doomed to travel the path of ignorance eternally blinded to reality until they "wake up." I like arrogance, but your bs ego trumps my and david's arrogance___together.

You and all who think like you are part of the cause of humanities suffering and humanity will not free itself from its own self imposed imprisonment and suffering until it stops listening to the BS that you and others like you promote. Sorry, but metaphysics and all its associated religious cults is the cause of mankind's problems___always has been___always will be...

Are you able to handle criticism or just dish it out to others who do not agree with you while you hide behind your position as a moderator ? I like constructive criticism, when there is any___I see only insanity of metaphysics, from your bs.

There is no T.O.E. or T.O.N. unless and until consciousness per se is fully explained - understood - and reunited with its source - within every one of
us ! How can you unite something that doesn't exist? Hey IC, the source is you... Wake up___before meta-magic consumes you, as it has MK.

Do you have the courage to debate the issue of consciousness or will you escape by deleting posts that you cannot answer or deal with because they are different than yours ? It does not say much for a forum that supposedly is in a search for "Truth" to have you as a moderator when you are a materialist blind to any other position but your own.

On this one you seem to disdain the free speech clause of the U.S. Constitution___you should remember, you have a duty and obligation to defend others' free speech___even if you dis-agree___this is why I have taken liberty to go against you...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by Guille

Why? You do not understand that philosophy is not about creating systems of thoughts. That is what philosophy was. Then philosophy became the deconstruction of the systems, the ideas, the idols... And that is what it remains still. But I do nothing of those two. I observe and think. I said in my post that I don't think that the only thing that exists is the physical reality, I made an error in the post: what I meant is that I think that sub-consciousness is an illusion. Consciousness is the only reality of our mind, sub-consciousness is false, it's all thought and perception. There is no intuition, that is subject to mixing logic and experience. That's what I meant and what I think.

Guille, on your point about intuition___you'd better check Brouwer and Godel's intuitionistic logic___it is quite real. It really dates back to Huygens and Pierce, with their abduction logics...

regards,

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie

IC, you are one of the adherents of metaphysical bs, that is always against those trying to do real science___science requires its logic to posess no magic___metaphysics includes far to much metaphysical magic___it ain't real___it's unproven religion... I'll answer your foolish questions, below...

Originally Posted by Infinite Consciousness

On this one you seem to disdain the free speech clause of the U.S. Constitution___you should remember, you have a duty and obligation to defend others' free speech___even if you dis-agree___this is why I have taken liberty to go against you...

You are the one consumed by your closed minded ignorance Lloyd,if you managed
to jemmy your mind open a little,you may just learn something,go on give it a try
Lloyd,after all what have you got to loose?

regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

MK, "As you are, I once was. As I am, you never will be." Thirty four years ago, I too, opened up my mind and let all the aligators fall in. MK, remove the aligators...and find the absolute scientific truth...not the meta-non-physical bs.

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie

IC, you are one of the adherents of metaphysical bs, that is always against those trying to do real science___science requires its logic to posess no magic___metaphysics includes far to much metaphysical magic___it ain't real___it's unproven religion... I'll answer your foolish questions, below...

[Infinite Consciousness]

IC, you are one of the adherents of metaphysical bs, that is always against those trying to do real science___science requires its logic to posess no magic___metaphysics includes far to much metaphysical magic___it ain't real___it's unproven religion... I'll answer your foolish questions, below...

(1) Can you explain how consciousness is a pure physical motion and interaction of matter ? Consciousness is bs, as studied by metaphysicians. Being conscious is science.

You and all who think like you are part of the cause of humanities suffering and humanity will not free itself from its own self imposed imprisonment and suffering until it stops listening to the BS that you and others like you promote. Sorry, but metaphysics and all its associated religious cults is the cause of mankind's problems___always has been___always will be...

Are you able to handle criticism or just dish it out to others who do not agree with you while you hide behind your position as a moderator ? I like constructive criticism, when there is any___I see only insanity of metaphysics, from your bs.

There is no T.O.E. or T.O.N. unless and until consciousness per se is fully explained - understood - and reunited with its source - within every one of
us ! How can you unite something that doesn't exist? Hey IC, the source is you... Wake up___before meta-magic consumes you, as it has MK.

On this one you seem to disdain the free speech clause of the U.S. Constitution___you should remember, you have a duty and obligation to defend others' free speech___even if you dis-agree___this is why I have taken liberty to go against you.

Lloyd Gillespie,
will you please explain metaphysics and what is used in metaphysics to reach it's conclusions - are the conclusions reached in metaphysics derived from mind and it's thinking - are all metaphysical conclusions a product of mind and thought ?

You have called metaphysics "insanity" and the cause of all of humanities problems - always has been - and always will be.

Well obviously we need to know the mechanics of metaphysics - i.e. how and what a metaphysician uses to reach their conclusions.

On the issue of free speech - where is free speech when dleviwing as a moderator deletes posts that he does not agree with - and where was your or any other materialists defense of free speech in that incidence ?

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by Infinite Consciousness

QUOTE

Lloyd Gillespie,
will you please explain metaphysics and what is used in metaphysics to reach it's conclusions - are the conclusions reached in metaphysics derived from mind and it's thinking - are all metaphysical conclusions a product of mind and thought ? A resounding, No. Conclusions are always the comparisons of as many logic object entities as is possible to prove any result___that means science over all meta-sciences, even when trying to understand straight metaphysics, i.e., its lack of true science laws, replaced by metaphysics' meta-laws, bordering on isomorphisms and redundencies of. There is no proof possible, without crossing the quantum river, into real science laws. The two laws systems and principles of both don't, at all, correspond with each. Husserl showed that, and Charles Sanders Pierce was most the best of separating the realities, principles, and laws of each choice of thought - the physical and meta-physical. The differences are profound. Freud also stated the opposite set of laws for psychology against physics, etc., which is most the same as the lose rules of any meta-science. It generally is interpreted as "from above", and science is generally interpreted as "from below", or no test-tube proof vs. test-tube proofs.

You have called metaphysics "insanity" and the cause of all of humanities problems - always has been - and always will be. As to its cultist religeous bent, words without test-tube proofs, promotes all insanities, including poverty, crime and war. Where have the meta-scientists been on these issues___out to lunch___fighting against the truest scientists on earth, simply because meta can't recognize true non-meta.

Well obviously we need to know the mechanics of metaphysics - i.e. how and what a metaphysician uses to reach their conclusions. I have seen it always as to lose a set of laws and principles___problem.

On the issue of free speech - where is free speech when dleviwing as a moderator deletes posts that he does not agree with - and where was your or any other materialists defense of free speech in that incidence ?

He's deleted some of mine also. He has that right of free speech, as moderator. BTW, I'm not a materialist___I'm just a natural born logician... I come from a large family of highly educated logicians, etc., even both my mother and father...