[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

Dave,I heard a rumour that you were
going to be deleted as the moderator for this forum!What shame that would be
aye David?

Not a bad idea Michael; I’ve recommended Lloyd to replace me.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Not a bad idea Michael; I’ve recommended Lloyd to replace me.

Thats an excellent idea Dave,but rumour has it that like you he has also been
deleted,apparently by you whilst in a violent angry outburst.

btw Dave I am considering the job.
btw2,I am going to florida soon on business,maybe we could meet up,have a big mac
and fries,and a cup of coffee,

what do you say mate?Please give me your address and phone number,I geta taxi
over to your place,as soon as I settle into the hotel,and had a shower.

warm regards michael.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Lloyd;
I was told that “If you can’t convince them with facts, dazzle them with BS”. You are wasting your time with those who have already been dazzled to the state of belief by religious concepts of reality.

I know Dave, I'm just having fun___honing my skills against the meta-bull-crap...

regards,

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Koo-Koo___Koo-Koo___Koo-Koo...

Bye___Bye...

Originally Posted by Infinite Consciousness

dleviwing, L.G., and All Other Materialists,


MATERIALISM (1) PHILOSOPHY. the doctrine (i.e. the teaching or belief of a group of persons) that matter is the fundamental reality and that all thoughts, feeling, etc. can be explained in terms of physical laws.

MATERIALIST (1) A person who advocates (i.e. speaks in favor of ; recommends publicly ) materialism.

MATERIALIST RE the doctrine or belief advocated by materialists - "As long as mankind remains arrogant in believing his mind and consciousness is something special to the universe, he is doomed to travel the path of ignorance and eternally blinded to reality.

MATERIALISM How does the materialist determine the true or false status of materialism as a true science advocating a doctrine or belief system ?

(A) Scientific thoughts and ideas produce scientific theories. They are called scientific due to the fact that
they infer the ability to perform the science methodology of measurable testing.

(B) Metaphysics and religion only require belief in an idea that cannot be tested or proven.


(C) If your ideas or thoughts produce a concept (in this case materialism) that can be tested with scientific
methodology ( and is tested with scientific methodology ) to determine its true or false status, then they
are not metaphysics. They are true science.

In response,

Whereas the materialists has not applied the scientific methodology of measurable testing in (A) (which
he bases his true science on) to the mind and consciousness embedded in and manifesting through matter
consequently his / her attempt to explain the nature or reality of the universe is the metaphysics of (B) The
mind and consciousness that are advocating this belief or doctrine have not been tested to determine their
true or false status.

If the Materialists ideas, thoughts, mind and consciousness, that produced the concept of materialism are not
tested with scientific methodology to determine their true or false status, then they are not true science as the tests
required by materialists to be real science - have not been performed - they are only metaphysics - a belief
system or doctrine that has not been tested or proven.

The qualities of the mind used to determine the true or false status of materialism are - lust - anger - greed -
attachment - and ego - i.e. the "Law of the Jungle." Wherein life eats life and selfishness rules. We call this
evolution ? Our 8 % human consciousness functioning through the mind and its thinking is functioning as discrete
chunks of quanta or particles and waves it can only know parts it can never get a true picture of anything in its
totality. It is only in freeing consciousness from its identifying with matter that we experience reality as a totality.

The qualities of Infinite Consciousness freed from the chemical stupor created by the mind and its thinking are
Unlimited Wisdom - Immortality - Unconditional Love - Fearlessness - Connectedness - and Bliss i.e. the Peace
that Passeth All Understanding. But the materialist will only know and experience this when their consciousness
is freed from its imprisonment in matter (the physical-material body) and rises above that body. Only that which
has been experienced in our consciousness can be known to consciousness and it can only be known to us as
individuals. Esoteric knowledge must be won by each for himself. Only consciousness can experience Infinite
Consciousness.

Dleviwing, you asked me if i can suggest any scientific test method to verify my ideas - well first let me assure you
that i am not presenting ideas - i have used a precise meditation (concentration) method to free my consciousness
from the body and have not only risen above body consciousness but continue to do so present time. The
meditation technique is the one taught by Spiritual Masters such as - Kabir - Nanak - Mualana Rumi etc. and is
presented here under ' no man is an island - get connected.' Until the Materialist applies this meditation as the
scientific methodology that it is to determine the true or false status of his mind influencing his consciousness and
using that untested mind and consciousness to advocate his theory of materialism - he is a metaphysician using
metaphysics to promote an untested - unproven - belief system.

By the way the onus is on the materialist to prove their doctrine - and in not applying a scientific methodology to
test the mind and consciousness to determine their true or false status - they violate their own requirement for
determining what they call true science. Their metaphysics or materialism is only a belief system or doctrine that
has not been tested or proven.

And, by the way Quantum Physics has established that when matter is broken into its minutest form there are
light & sound waves at the heart of all atomic particles. Thus, what we take to be solid is nothing more than
waves manifesting information. The in-formation of thought. The universe that we as the participator of quantum
physics bring into being is the manifested thought of our Infinite Consciousness.

[ManFriday]

Butthen if you're talking about living things, in particula wouldn't this theory of natural organisatio just turn out to be far too complicated?

[merlin wood]

Originally Posted by ManFriday

Butthen if you're talking about living things, in particula wouldn't this theory of natural organisatio just turn out to be far too complicated?

The theory that relates a non-local causal hypothesis to the minds and consciousness of living organiosis is quite simple because the cause itself has no measurable properties that can be described by measurement, calculation or mathematical formula so that you can only use words to describe its action upon matter and diagrams to represent the way it relates in space to producue its effects.

Think of a cause that just acts upon atoms and molecules so that they remain organised out of their their subatomic components by possessing properties of wave, spin and entanglement.

The theory could become more comlex quantum wave behaviour is related to the astronomical evidence, but probably no more so than is existing astrophysics.

[merlin wood]

Originally Posted by merlin wood

The theory that relates a non-local causal hypothesis to the minds and consciousness of living organisis is quite simple because the cause itself has no measurable properties that can be described by measurement, calculation or mathematical formula. So that you can only use words to describe its action upon matter, and diagrams to represent the way it relates in space to produce its effects.

Think of a cause that just acts upon atoms and molecules so that they remain organised out of their their subatomic components by possessing properties of wave, spin and entanglement.

And, of course, this a key problem with the mind set of the physicist especially, who, by being trained in the measurent and calculation of the effects of the forces upon matter and energy, can easily come to believe that effects that have no measurable cause (other than its effects occur at faster than the speed of light) really have no cause at all, and especially when you can't directly observe or detect these effects upon objects in motion.

Nor, it seems, will any physicist be convinced by any non-mathematical argument that relates the the quantum evidence to properties of mind or consciousness, even if this does imclude quite clear diagrams representing the spatial relationships between cause and effect.

See: http://foranewageofreason.blogspirit.com final section on living organisms.

[dleviwing]

Originally Posted by merlin wood

Nor, it seems, will any physicist be convinced by any non-mathematical argument that relates the the quantum evidence to properties of mind or consciousness, even if this does imclude quite clear diagrams representing the spatial relationships between cause and effect.

I believe you are confused as to what is quantum evidence and what is quantum theory interpretations. The talk of thought or mind influencing experimental data in quantum physics is part of the obscure interpretations, not the evidence. There is no evidence of such interactions. If you have found some, I would be greatly interested in seeing it.

[merlin wood]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

I believe you are confused as to what is quantum evidence and what is quantum theory interpretations. The talk of thought or mind influencing experimental data in quantum physics is part of the obscure interpretations, not the evidence. There is no evidence of such interactions. If you have found some, I would be greatly interested in seeing it.

But then if your efer to: http://foranewageofreason.blogspirit.com you will find no referene to psychic powers at all.

So that in the context of my hypothesis I find it sufficient to refer only to certain problems of mind and consciousness that have been consideredin standard academic philosophy at least since Descartes' time, plus certain general features of the behaviour of living organisms including human beings.