[Profpat]

Where is the center on the surface of this sphere. Remember there is no inside or outside of our universe, just void.

Best,

Pat

P.S Maybe the big bang produced a big bubble that is still expanding.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger Dear all Once again we revert to the thinking that there has to be a single centre for all of creation based on the BB. This is akin to saying that the human race was all born at the same place and time. IMHO each and every galaxy has its own navel which means that we don't have to keep looking for something that doesn't exist and amending expansion/BB theory each time we find it doesn't fit.

I agree with you one hundred percent, Felix. While the option is a slight possibility, the importance of the center of the universe is only of importance when wanting to understand the universe' nature. The location of the Big Bang, and if you know my thinking I consider this not a pinpoint but a rather large area right from the start, that location could be proposed as the center of time/space (from our perspective).

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by Profpat Pat (you seem to take this rather lightly), I'm sorry Fredrick, but after 3 heart attacks and having chronic heart failure, I take life rather lightly. I still however think my An Idea is correct. It may require an interdimensional process, going from the 1st dimension of strings, to the 2nd dimension of quarks, to the 3rd spatial dimension of the proton/neutron, and finally adding the 4th dimension of time allowing for dynamic movement, but I believe it is right. Also by including the 8 inner dimensions of the octant gives our particle and therefore our reality all we need to explain the human condition. I find it to be simple and understandable and will stand behind it until proven incorrect. It's funny how they use to think the Earth was flat and the center of the cosmos. Now we find out that the universe is flat and that the Earth is the center of our cosmos. Isn't life strange?

Dear Pat,

I think it is great to take life lightly, and enjoy all precious moments as much as we can. But please understand that I did not undermine the ultimate delivery of string theory. The end result is actually the same, it is just the path to getting there that I consider incorrect (because string theory is partially based on something that is not there).

Possibly a discussion about words is the actual feat here, since in the pentaist theory the word dimension is used differently than in 3D (or in string). From your words, I read you are using it differently also.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by Profpat Where is the center on the surface of this sphere. Remember there is no inside or outside of our universe, just void. Best, Pat P.S Maybe the big bang produced a big bubble that is still expanding.

Pat, not to be faceatious, but to make my point come across about our discussion: you are showing us a picture. Therefore, all you need to do is take two diagonal lines starting in the corners and where the lines cross each other that is the middle of the picture.

But to answer your question as you intended. There is no center. We need spin to give the sphere more precise coordinates. In our universe, your question is a non-question, because the situation shown does not exist. It is a conceptual delivery in 2D (or in pentaist words: a single Field dimension, 1D) and despite the fantastic visual effects, it misses the depth of reality.

[Profpat]

But to answer your question as you intended. There is no center. We need spin to give the sphere more precise coordinates. In our universe, your question is a non-question, because the situation shown does not exist. It is a conceptual delivery in 2D (or in pentaist words: a single Field dimension, 1D) and despite the fantastic visual effects, it misses the depth of reality.

Hi Frederick;

I agree a 2D picture does miss the depth of reality, but I think our imagination can handle the transition between a 2D picture and 4D reality.

Perhaps blowing up a soap bubble would help.

I don't envision our universe having a spin in it's own right. Rather as you and Felix point out, that each galaxy has it's own angular momentum or spin; and therefore it's own personal unique center.

As with the soap bubble I imagine the univese to be balanced between the inner and outer pressure of the void.

Needless to say this image of a universe is conjecture, as who really knows?

Best to you,

Pat

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Fredrick ... Possibly a discussion about words is the actual feat here, since in the pentaist theory the word dimension is used differently than in 3D (or in string). From your words, I read you are using it differently also.

I agree. Words are convenient to summarize complex issues of nature into "soundbytes" enabling fast and easy communication, but precisely defining words always seems to be difficult. Where do you draw a line across the mouth of a river? At which molecule of water? In nature, boundaries tend to be fuzzy - especially at the subatomic level where speeds are incredibly fast and our vision is rather poor. (Where is old Werner when you need him?)

Originally Posted by Fredrick ... There is no center. We need spin to give the sphere more precise coordinates. In our universe, your question is a non-question, because the situation shown does not exist. It is a conceptual delivery in 2D (or in pentaist words: a single Field dimension, 1D) and despite the fantastic visual effects, it misses the depth of reality.

Perhaps the sphere analogy remains elusive, but the concept of "spin" comes back again. "Spin" is beginning to fascinate me ...

Originally Posted by Profpat ... As with the soap bubble I imagine the univese to be balanced between the inner and outer pressure of the void. ...

And "pressure" is coming into the picture again like in the "Spin-off" thread.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Profpat Where is the center on the surface of this sphere. Remember there is no inside or outside of our universe, just void. Best, Pat P.S Maybe the big bang produced a big bubble that is still expanding.

Pat somewhere in your thread you were wondering about the locality of the centre of the universe.
Without a reference point no-thing can exist.
So the centre of that image of the green sphere is the middle. The Centre.
That conclusion is a 'self referential' relative witnessing observation.
Without consciousness that conclusion would be non-existent.
So the centre of the universe must be the 'thing' that is observing the universe... Which is 'YOU'
'YOU' are the centre of the universe.
Conceptually speaking from the relative conscious self referential view point
every measurement or naming of something is a mental construct.
Basically all-things are invented by the mind.
they are made up.
It's all dreamscape stuff.

There is Sleeping Deep Dreamless Sleep. [The Absolute] Nothing.
And there is Sleeping Lucid Dreaming Sleep. [The Relative Witnessing] Something.

The Self Referential part is the SELF Knowing the SELF is dreaming. [Lucid]
The conscious SELF therefore is the centre of all 'things'
Every-thing else is non-existent .. it is all mind stuff.
No-thing can exist until imaged.
Close the eyes and no image.. and no world, Although there is still Awareness.
Whether is be conscious awareness or unconscious awareness.
The night and the day Realities are working in conjunction with each other.

It's Like the day dream is the inside out of the night dream.
And vice versa.
This is deep stuff Pat .....Apologies.
This is how i am visioning my personal reality.
We are all each and everyone of us A separate Universe.
A Hologram.




Just my thoughts Pat.
Whether they make sense i'm not sure.
They kinda make sense to me anyway.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by Profpat I don't envision our universe having a spin in it's own right. Rather as you and Felix point out, that each galaxy has it's own angular momentum or spin; and therefore it's own personal unique center.

Do you have evidence, Pat? The lack of evidence does not mean something isn't there. We have no certainty about extraterrestrial life, but many say it is close to certain that there is extraterrestrial life. The universe could be spinning once every second without anyone ever finding out, because we are inside the universe.

P.S. Melanie, I like your delivery.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by JAK I agree. Words are convenient to summarize complex issues of nature into "soundbytes" enabling fast and easy communication, but precisely defining words always seems to be difficult. Where do you draw a line across the mouth of a river? At which molecule of water? In nature, boundaries tend to be fuzzy - especially at the subatomic level where speeds are incredibly fast and our vision is rather poor. (Where is old Werner when you need him?) Perhaps the sphere analogy remains elusive, but the concept of "spin" comes back again. "Spin" is beginning to fascinate me ... And "pressure" is coming into the picture again like in the "Spin-off" thread.

Good delivery, JAK,

In essence, 2D+ and 3D use different meanings to the word dimension. They overlap in most cases, but where they differ is that 2D+ has a single reality (with depth) plus the experience of something flat (1D), within that reality.

In the spatial concept of 3D, there is 3D (with depth), and 2D (flat), but 1D is flat as well. In essence, 1D (flat) and 2D (flat) belong to the same experience. Therefore, according to me, 3D contains a flaw in how it is build up because the 1D experience is not essentially different from the 2D experience.

See also: http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-t...html#post53713

[Profpat]

Hi Frederick;

Sorry no evidence only conjecture and it indeed may be spinning. No evidence for that either that I'm aware of.

Hi Melanie;

I agree I think every person is the center of their universe. As far as dreams and the like, while I have nothing against the concept of ULTIMATE REALITY, in fact I believe it myself, I would like to keep this thread addressed to the relative reality that you and I occupy at present. Michael has some wonderful threads dedicated throughout the forum dealing with the topic of ULTIMATE REALITY OF ONE.

Best to you both,

Pat