An Idea

[JAK]

... Possibly a discussion about words is the actual feat here, since in the pentaist theory the word dimension is used differently than in 3D (or in string). From your words, I read you are using it differently also.

I agree. Words are convenient to summarize complex issues of nature into "soundbytes" enabling fast and easy communication, but precisely defining words always seems to be difficult. Where do you draw a line across the mouth of a river? At which molecule of water? In nature, boundaries tend to be fuzzy - especially at the subatomic level where speeds are incredibly fast and our vision is rather poor. (Where is old Werner when you need him?)

... There is no center. We need spin to give the sphere more precise coordinates. In our universe, your question is a non-question, because the situation shown does not exist. It is a conceptual delivery in 2D (or in pentaist words: a single Field dimension, 1D) and despite the fantastic visual effects, it misses the depth of reality.

Perhaps the sphere analogy remains elusive, but the concept of "spin" comes back again. "Spin" is beginning to fascinate me ...

... As with the soap bubble I imagine the univese to be balanced between the inner and outer pressure of the void. ...

And "pressure" is coming into the picture again like in the "Spin-off" thread.

[melanie]

Where is the center on the surface of this sphere. Remember there is no inside or outside of our universe, just void.

Best,

Pat

P.S Maybe the big bang produced a big bubble that is still expanding.

Pat somewhere in your thread you were wondering about the locality of the centre of the universe.
Without a reference point no-thing can exist.
So the centre of that image of the green sphere is the middle. The Centre.
That conclusion is a 'self referential' relative witnessing observation.
Without consciousness that conclusion would be non-existent.
So the centre of the universe must be the 'thing' that is observing the universe... Which is 'YOU'
'YOU' are the centre of the universe.
Conceptually speaking from the relative conscious self referential view point
every measurement or naming of something is a mental construct.
Basically all-things are invented by the mind.
they are made up.
It's all dreamscape stuff.

There is Sleeping Deep Dreamless Sleep. [The Absolute] Nothing.
And there is Sleeping Lucid Dreaming Sleep. [The Relative Witnessing] Something.

The Self Referential part is the SELF Knowing the SELF is dreaming. [Lucid]
The conscious SELF therefore is the centre of all 'things'
Every-thing else is non-existent .. it is all mind stuff.
No-thing can exist until imaged.
Close the eyes and no image.. and no world, Although there is still Awareness.
Whether is be conscious awareness or unconscious awareness.
The night and the day Realities are working in conjunction with each other.

It's Like the day dream is the inside out of the night dream.
And vice versa.
This is deep stuff Pat .....Apologies.
This is how i am visioning my personal reality.
We are all each and everyone of us A separate Universe.
A Hologram.




Just my thoughts Pat.
Whether they make sense i'm not sure.
They kinda make sense to me anyway.

[Fredrick]

I don't envision our universe having a spin in it's own right. Rather as you and Felix point out, that each galaxy has it's own angular momentum or spin; and therefore it's own personal unique center.

Do you have evidence, Pat? The lack of evidence does not mean something isn't there. We have no certainty about extraterrestrial life, but many say it is close to certain that there is extraterrestrial life. The universe could be spinning once every second without anyone ever finding out, because we are inside the universe.

P.S. Melanie, I like your delivery.

[Fredrick]

I agree. Words are convenient to summarize complex issues of nature into "soundbytes" enabling fast and easy communication, but precisely defining words always seems to be difficult. Where do you draw a line across the mouth of a river? At which molecule of water? In nature, boundaries tend to be fuzzy - especially at the subatomic level where speeds are incredibly fast and our vision is rather poor. (Where is old Werner when you need him?)

Perhaps the sphere analogy remains elusive, but the concept of "spin" comes back again. "Spin" is beginning to fascinate me ...

And "pressure" is coming into the picture again like in the "Spin-off" thread.

Good delivery, JAK,

In essence, 2D+ and 3D use different meanings to the word dimension. They overlap in most cases, but where they differ is that 2D+ has a single reality (with depth) plus the experience of something flat (1D), within that reality.

In the spatial concept of 3D, there is 3D (with depth), and 2D (flat), but 1D is flat as well. In essence, 1D (flat) and 2D (flat) belong to the same experience. Therefore, according to me, 3D contains a flaw in how it is build up because the 1D experience is not essentially different from the 2D experience.

See also: http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-t...html#post53713

[Profpat]

Hi Frederick;

Sorry no evidence only conjecture and it indeed may be spinning. No evidence for that either that I'm aware of.

Hi Melanie;

I agree I think every person is the center of their universe. As far as dreams and the like, while I have nothing against the concept of ULTIMATE REALITY, in fact I believe it myself, I would like to keep this thread addressed to the relative reality that you and I occupy at present. Michael has some wonderful threads dedicated throughout the forum dealing with the topic of ULTIMATE REALITY OF ONE.

Best to you both,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Frederick;

Here are some thoughts regarding universal spin from another site;


Does the Universe Spin?
Everything in the Universe spins, from atoms to galaxies. Planets, stars, black holes, etc. It would explain why everything spins, if it were an inate quality of the Universe as a whole. It might explain the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe too.

Any thoughts?



Re: Does the Universe Spin?

As I understand it, most of the spinning structures you mentioned do so because the momentum is consered and concetrated as things contract.
The "ice skater" effect.

For the Universe, you would expect the opposite effect, as any rotational momentum would be dissapated by expansin, to the point where local gravitational (and other stochastic) effects would overwhelm it.



Re: Does the Universe Spin?
Spinning in relation to what? A spinning universe also implies that there is a center to the rotation and unless our observations of redshift are completely wrong and the universe is, in fact, rotating, the Earth would, actually, be the center of the universe. Highly unlikely.



Re: Does the Universe Spin?
Spinning in relation to what?

Yes, good point that even a layman like me can understand.

For the Universe to "spin," there would have to be something outside whatever boundaries it may have, as a point of reference wouldn't there? Ie, not just a load of complete "nothingness."

[melanie]

Hi Melanie;

I agree I think every person is the center of their universe. As far as dreams and the like, while I have nothing against the concept of ULTIMATE REALITY, in fact I believe it myself,
I would like to keep this thread addressed to the relative reality that you and I occupy at present.
Michael has some wonderful threads dedicated throughout the forum dealing with the topic of ULTIMATE REALITY OF ONE.

************************************************** **************


HI PAT,

I am sorry i posted here , it was unfounded and thoughtless of me.
Apologies.
melanie.

[Fredrick]

Hi Frederick;

Here are some thoughts regarding universal spin from another site;


Does the Universe Spin?
Everything in the Universe spins, from atoms to galaxies. Planets, stars, black holes, etc. It would explain why everything spins, if it were an inate quality of the Universe as a whole. It might explain the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe too.

Any thoughts?



Re: Does the Universe Spin?

As I understand it, most of the spinning structures you mentioned do so because the momentum is consered and concentrated as things contract.
The "ice skater" effect.

For the Universe, you would expect the opposite effect, as any rotational momentum would be dissapated by expansin, to the point where local gravitational (and other stochastic) effects would overwhelm it.



Re: Does the Universe Spin?
Spinning in relation to what? A spinning universe also implies that there is a center to the rotation and unless our observations of redshift are completely wrong and the universe is, in fact, rotating, the Earth would, actually, be the center of the universe. Highly unlikely.



Re: Does the Universe Spin?
Spinning in relation to what?

Yes, good point that even a layman like me can understand.

For the Universe to "spin," there would have to be something outside whatever boundaries it may have, as a point of reference wouldn't there? Ie, not just a load of complete "nothingness."

Thank you for these further insights, Pat. I do not know if I should agree or not with all conclusions (for instance, concluding that earth must then be the center because the spin does not show up in that what we can register, does not make sense when it is not measurable as specific information).

As far as the imbalance of matter and anti-matter is concerned, I would say that this imbalance points to a spinning universe. And if not a spinning, then at least a moving universe. However, since our universe' boundaries are all not that clear, it is difficult to capture this concept well in a direct way, only indirectly. We know for certain it is expanding yet it may also be moving one-directionally and/or spinning.

However, this is a limb I am not deeply interested in, just mentioned it in light of your initial set up.

[Profpat]

Hi Melanie;

I agree I think every person is the center of their universe. As far as dreams and the like, while I have nothing against the concept of ULTIMATE REALITY, in fact I believe it myself,
I would like to keep this thread addressed to the relative reality that you and I occupy at present.
Michael has some wonderful threads dedicated throughout the forum dealing with the topic of ULTIMATE REALITY OF ONE.

************************************************** **************


HI PAT,

I am sorry i posted here , it was unfounded and thoughtless of me.
Apologies.
melanie.

Hi Melanie;

You are a very sweet and sensitive lady. You of course can post here any time you wish. I just didn't want to get to transcendental on this topic. It's more nuclear and astro physics here. ( quantum mechanics and relativity, special and general )

Very best to you,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Frederick;

Actually RP and myself, proposed an anti matter parallel universe spinning around our universe in Tao fashion. This would solve the CPT asymmetrical problem. The two universes would complement each other, as Yin/Yang does.

Who knows, but speculation is fun.

Best to you,

Pat