[Profpat]

PS: Pat - there's no need to shout!

Sorry Felix I forgot feline ears are far more sensitive than humans,

[Fredrick]

Hi Felix,

That has happened to me on many occasions, too, reading something into words, and than later seeing it could be read differently as well. Thanks for your further explanation. I see you agree with Aaron (and me) that his remark is based on the good complaint that moving away from the real stuff towards just images can be rather tricky.

As far as Pat is concerned, we'll surely forgive him to come to my rescue; after all, this is his thread, and we are his guests.

And yes: I like your signature!

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger ... I think there's a lot more in this statement than Fredrick was prepared to allow. Most of the pictures on the site have a high entertainment value but add little to understanding. As you know (Fredrick and Pat), I have been seeking to find common ground between some of the shapes you use and the structure of particles. What I find missing is the concise use of illustration to clarify the point being made. ...

I am seeing the relevance in the points made by others, but I can see Felix's point, too.

Analogies, graphics, and models assist us in understanding difficult and complex concepts. But they may not be "spot on", as they say. Plus, if they are accurate, there should be a way to transform from one idea into another. In other words, what Felix is trying to do is what I also need in order to be satisfied with the model:

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger "... seeking to find common ground between some of the shapes you use and the structure of particles." ...

P.S. Yeah, Profpat, stop shouting, you young whipper-snapper. We may be old (I've got 7 grandkids), but we ain't deef yet!

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by JAK Analogies, graphics, and models assist us in understanding difficult and complex concepts. But they may not be "spot on", as they say. Plus, if they are accurate, there should be a way to transform from one idea into another. In other words, what Felix is trying to do is what I also need in order to be satisfied with the model.

JAK, you are very right. If the model can't hold up to modern data and insights then the model is not worthy of mentioning ever again. One reason I am very happy with Felix and your request is that I do not have to do this alone; we've got all the needed intellectual property right here on ToeQuest to establish this feet.

But also forgive me, I have seen the pyramid in so many different ways already, as indeed being complete and irrefutable (but also in some respects as only giving the conceptual format), that I do not need to get involved in having to deliver all and each utmost specific detail.

As I stand, the model cannot be taken down, but it has its limitation in use. However, what is easy to overlook is that it does include and overcomes actual separation. So beware when asking for actual connections between everything, when everything contains separation on the most fundamental of levels. Relationships is the best you can get, and the model, conceptual only as it may be, provides that for the scientific data as well.

My book is called In Search of a Cyclops and it is possible that there is a little bit of a Cyclops (of believing in unification) in you. I am not saying you are, but for sure I cannot address the part inside you that you not address yourself.

To mention Nobody one more time; in ancient Greek mythology Odysseus and his crew were captured by a Cyclops on an island of Cyclops. They were kept in a cave, where the Cyclops also kept his sheep. At night, an enormous rock was placed in front of the exit by the Cyclops, so no one could escape. The only reason Odysseus and his men were able to escape was that he had introduced himself (on a whim) as Nobody. So when they punctured the only eye the Cyclops had when he was asleep in the middle of the night, making him blind as a bat, the other Cyclops came to his door, hearing all that screaming, and shouted through the enclosed doorway to find out what had happened. The Cyclops answered that nobody had hurt him, nobody was trying to escape, and they should prevent nobody from leaving. The other Cyclops did not understand that nobody was a real Nobody, and left. Then, since the Cyclops also had sheep, he had to roll the rock away in the day time to let the sheep out to graze in the field. He touched the sheep with his hands to make sure he only let sheep out, but Odysseus and his men were hanging off the bellies of the sheep to get out of the cave.

Thank you for your sharp mind, JAK.

[Profpat]

Hey my images are just fine, and if that mangy cat Felix can't follow them, that's fine. What do expect from a cat that allows itself to be incarcerated for 70 years.

BTW: Thanks for the compliment JAK. It's been quite awhile since anybody said I was a young whipper-snapper. Unfortunately, it's been quite some time since I could either whip or snap.

Best to all, even that flea bitten feline of a cat Felix,

Pat

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Fredrick ... One reason I am very happy with Felix and your request is that I do not have to do this alone; we've got all the needed intellectual property right here on ToeQuest to establish this feet. But also forgive me, I have seen the pyramid in so many different ways already, as indeed being complete and irrefutable (but also in some respects as only giving the conceptual format), that I do not need to get involved in having to deliver all and each utmost specific detail. ...

Alluding to sheep, the shepherd needs to tend the sheep lest they get into trouble. Fredrick, please help guide this "sidequest" that Felix and I are taking.

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger ... I have been seeking to find common ground between some of the shapes you use and the structure of particles. ...

Felix, please start another thread so that we don't hijack Profpat's "An Idea" thread. Please PM the new thread name to me and Fredrick, and start the thread with the progress you have made so far - even if it is just a starting point. Thanks!

[Felix Schrodinger]

Originally Posted by JAK Felix, please start another thread so that we don't hijack Profpat's "An Idea" thread.

Hi Jak

See my article: http://www.toequest.com/forum/toe-th...nce-shiva.html. I have covered quantum gravity, the strong and weak forces and time. I'm currently struggling with magnetism which has a lot in common with gravity.

regards
Felix

PS - no fleas on me!

[JamesANicholson]

What did I sow here?

Here is a diagram that I use in trying to illustrate the possible workings, of how, just photons and other "light" particles could come together to nucleate or form/reform elements/atoms using nothing but a three dimensional geometry. My drawing is in a two dimensional flat representation, but it should be easy enough to visualize as being three dimensional.

In this diagram, each of the individual arrows represents an "average" photon's momentum for simplicity.

It is reasonable to talk about an "average photon momentum" and represent them in this manner, because, if you simply consider the influence of each possible photon coming into a shared space, you could calculate the overall influence of each and then add them all together vector-ially and divid by the number of photons to determine the statistical "average" photon. This specific average momentum may only exist as a statistical ideal, but it will/should nevertheless give very accurate and reasonably logical results.

This represents a location in space where energy fields, say 'Solar' winds, meet up in statistically perfectly balanced configurations, whether the source of the winds are coming from just two opposing stars or one star vs the entire night sky at the other end of the balance.

Now, this is a drawing that relates a hypothetical (because we can't directly observe it) principle accurately to a possible real functioning model in a way that shows what could be a real-time event for an atomic model.

Now, somewhere around the Plank number or maybe exactly at the Plank number of average photons coming together at one time, you have reached the level of density that allows momentary solidification or elemental nucleation--the forming of an atom of mass 1, a hydrogen atom.

This is the point where gravity (the large expansive solar wind fields that have found their balanced opposition locations) push on each other with absolute matched resistance to the extent that they can only compress internally to grow in density (photonic concentrations) to the point of nucleation.

I know that this is a very different view from the current theory that the basic particles were formed shortly after the "Big Bang and have existed ever since and that the heavier elements are permanently formed in the aftermath of super novae, but I have good arguments why those theories are weak at best.

This is actually premature to share this image here before publishing it in my "paper", but I couldn't think of better way to illustrate my point about accurate (in representation) graphic interpretations.

But since I have, note that this model represents much more.

There is the electron "field" around the area of nucleation, which is simply the area where the direction of the individual momentums will end up being totally deflected into the nucleus and met with equal resistance (opposition) by the sheer density of the combined momentum coming together at that point.

This sets up the equal but opposite "charge" associated with electrons and protons. The proton is the compressed sum of a Plank number of photons.

At any moment there is an equal number of photons directed into the center as there are opposing or trying to leave the center, setting up the dual dynamics ("Positive" and "Negative" forces) of electrical charges with in the atom.

Then as a second stage, as the density grows over time in a "gravity" field where nucleation has initiated, a completely entrapped Plank number of average photons will be contained within the "proton" exerting no outward force or charge (therefore being "neutral" but having a local "mass" concentration roughly equal to the mass of the proton concentration which does interact with the outside "electron" force.

This could be the newest model for the atom, based on gravity being the grand outside force that actually causes atoms to form, tying gravity to the other forces in a rather ingenious way. But it is all based on one thing--photons (actually anything/everything with momentum) in geometry.

In cosmic geometries light particles, across the spectrum, create Gravity wells.

Within Gravity "wells" (destinations, really) you then get atomic geometry coming out of the sheer density of opposing "photons."

This geometry actually sets up the dynamic situation of electrons forming free form as the first nucleation phase--forming and unforming as electrons and positrons. Coming together as electrons and flying apart as the reciprocal positron (the opposite action of an electron)

From this model you get the strong nuclear force (directed toward the center or a molecule or element) when you get a significant gathering of "massive" elemental particles that they can "shadow" each other from directional influences between each other but not from the outside gravitational directional forces which are continually pushing them ever closer together. This gravitational "pressure" is also inverse square related as it gets closed to the individual particle point "wells." This would explain the seemingly "relative" strength difference between gravity, electricity, and the strong nuclear forces.

The weak Nuclear force is then the compressed photons pushing out from both the neutrons and the protons which are only able to break free when heavy densities like radio-active elements are brought up to geological levels of pressure that are too thin, in a Gravitational sense, to equal the internal pressures that were sufficient to create them and maintain them at a position closer to the center of, say, the planet.

There are your four forces neatly tied together and in the simplest straight forward manner using only the momentum of very light photons and Geometry.

And thank you all for the opportunity to express myself here. I think that I have just summarized my ToE here, better than I have been able to do up to this time.

I still need to explain how and why magnetism works according to this model, but it is also very simple as you will see.

'Til then, warmest regards,
Aaron

[dipayankar]

SHOCKING...

Originally Posted by Profpat I'm not sure Dipayankar; I'd like to think it's a premature announcement of his death. Does anyone know out there. I'll put the question on the shoutbox.

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by Felix Schrodinger Hi Jak See my article: http://www.toequest.com/forum/toe-th...nce-shiva.html. I have covered quantum gravity, the strong and weak forces and time. I'm currently struggling with magnetism which has a lot in common with gravity. regards Felix PS - no fleas on me!

Hi Felix;

It is a very nice theory, and I complimented you on it before at that thread..

"Felix;

Congratulations. I'm glad you were able to post your theory here. I would recommend all members to access the link that has your diagrams. It makes your theory much easier to follow.

Best to you,

Pat"

Please notice how I thought your diagrams helped to understand your theory. Some of us namely yours truly, requires them to aid in this understanding.

Best to you,

Pat

P.S. You must have used flea powder