An Idea

[austintorn@aol.com]

Can't go wrong with those beliefs, Prof; love is it.

If there is a good and loving God, then I could hardly help loving the Guy.

(We don't really have to like devils or Devils.)

[Profpat]

Can't go wrong with those beliefs, Prof; love is it.

If there is a good and loving God, then I could hardly help loving the Guy.

(We don't really have to like devils or Devils.)

LOL!! But if we got rid of the devil who would we blame. " The Devil made me do it. "

[austintorn@aol.com]

Blame low levels of serotonin and other neurotransmitters. "My low serotonin made me act in a primitive way."

[Profpat]

You're beginning to sound like a lawyer now, but then they are the devil.

[dipayankar]

To be perfectly honest Prof and Fredrick... I am still thinking as to whether I do have a mind as a seperate entity or is it a projection of my brain, some neurons that combine in a certain way to give the illusion of the mind.

We do have consciousness that for sure, but is it unique to humans? Can a microorganism have consciousness? Since they do not have brains, would they have a mind?

Would a ToE (they way I see it ie unification of the grand with the quantum) actually require a mind and spirituality? Can gravity be affected by mind?

Wow there are so many questions in my mind.... Probably I need to read a lot more about various aspects of science and spirituality...

I fully agree with Pat, Dipayan, except for the unifying part of course.

Just kidding and just playing with words. (Yes, I know, I wasn't born funny).


I could not disagree more, exactly because Pat mentions a unifying principle that is the root of so much trouble. But that is not the question you are asking.

As soon as scientists discover that they wrapped themselves in a religious concept of the unifying principle, and then free themselves of this alien thinking, then they will (as they have formulated similar deliveries this way already) conclude that science can explain anything about the parts of the bicycle, and that it only takes the right combination of the parts to have the mind be a functioning bicycle.

The right combination does not require further scientific explanation, for the combination was discovered in a natural evolutionary way already. The potential of the right combination was included with the parts. There is really no enigma there, as there are (created) enigmas in religion and philosophy.

In philosophy some may go as far as stating the table in front of you is not really there, but in science the table is the starting point. In religion the big question is always where the soul came from, but it would be like asking: How can you place a cup high above the floor without you touching it? (Answer: a table.) How can we not have a mind? Imagine not having a mind, but then make sure you are imagining it without you having a mind!?!? My reply: Duh!

As for spirituality? This is a generic term, and I would say that the examples of spirituality are much like the views and perspectives we find when taking a bike ride.

I am certain others will have different ideas to mention on your very good question, Dipayan. How about yourself in light of this question?

[Felix Schrodinger]

The idea of a clockwork universe has long been abandoned by most scientist, since Einstein's relativity and quatum mechanics, has entered the scene.

Hi Profpat

I'm not sure I agree with this. Over a century or so we have gone from Newton to Einstein to quantum mechanics but this has not mean we have abandoned the clockwork universe - it's just that we started out with Big Ben and now we are working with a miniature quartze watch which can only be seen through an electron microscope.

I would like to thank whoever it was who gave me the link to Steven Bryant's excellent exposition of the faults in Special Relativity (http://www.relativitychallenge.com). It really is an eyeopener.

best to all
Felix

PS - Big Ben still keeps excellent time.

[Profpat]

To be perfectly honest Prof and Fredrick... I am still thinking as to whether I do have a mind as a seperate entity or is it a projection of my brain, some neurons that combine in a certain way to give the illusion of the mind.

We do have consciousness that for sure, but is it unique to humans? Can a microorganism have consciousness? Since they do not have brains, would they have a mind?

Would a ToE (they way I see it ie unification of the grand with the quantum) actually require a mind and spirituality? Can gravity be affected by mind?

Wow there are so many questions in my mind.... Probably I need to read a lot more about various aspects of science and spirituality...

If we are just talking about a TOE for the physical universe than I don't know if we need to consider the mental or spiritual aspect of that. Though the universe and/or the Earth may have awareness.

However if you want to include life forms and humans as part of everything then we have to consider it.

Why do I have the ability to love and hate. Where do my thoughts come from, and why are they such.

Best to you Dipayankar, and keep the questions coming,

Pat

[Profpat]

Hi Felix,

Glad to hear from you again.

Well it is a strange clock. Sometimes it stops ( via Black Hole ); sometimes it goes faster than time itself ( via Spatial Inflation ). Sometimes the clock is there, sometimes it's not there, sometimes it is everywhere. ( electrons being viewed as point particles everywhere in space )

My own An Idea tries to return this Alice's world of quantum mechanics, back to something understandable. But all in all Newtons clockwork universe is not the same clock that you and I grew up with.

Best to you Felix,

Pat

[dipayankar]

If you dont mind Felix, can you please send me a link which describes the concept of clockwork Universe?

Hi Profpat

I'm not sure I agree with this. Over a century or so we have gone from Newton to Einstein to quantum mechanics but this has not mean we have abandoned the clockwork universe - it's just that we started out with Big Ben and now we are working with a miniature quartze watch which can only be seen through an electron microscope.

I would like to thank whoever it was who gave me the link to Steven Bryant's excellent exposition of the faults in Special Relativity (http://www.relativitychallenge.com). It really is an eyeopener.

best to all
Felix

PS - Big Ben still keeps excellent time.

[Profpat]

If you dont mind Felix, can you please send me a link which describes the concept of clockwork Universe?

Hi Dipayankar;

Felix may have something additional to offer, but this is from our friends at wikipedia:

The Clockwork Universe Theory is a theory, established by Isaac Newton, as to the origins of the universe.
A "clockwork universe" can be thought of as being a clock wound up by God and ticking along, as a perfect machine, with its gears governed by the laws of physics.
What sets this theory apart from others is the idea that God's only contribution to the universe was to set everything in motion, and from there the laws of science took hold and have governed every sequence of events since that time. This idea was very popular during the Enlightenment, when scientists realized that Newton's laws of motion, including the law of universal gravitation, could explain the behavior of the solar system.
A notable exclusion from this theory though is free will, since all things have already been set in motion and are just parts of a predictable machine. Newton feared that this notion of "everything is predetermined" would lead to atheism.
This theory was undermined by the second law of thermodynamics ( the total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value) and quantum physics with its unpredictable random behavior.