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09-20-2008, 11:07 AM
Re: An Idea

Again you could be right Max:

The universe itself is, in fact, described by the same equations that describe a black hole. A black hole is a region where there is such a concentration of matter that the gravitational pull it produces is so strong that not even light can escape from its surface. Nothing from inside a black hole can affect the outside world, although objects from outside may fall in. Such a black hole may be produced when a star rather more massive than our own sun comes to the end of its life, and shrinks inward.
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09-20-2008, 11:24 AM
Re: An Idea

The Birth of your own personal Universe:

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09-21-2008, 10:50 AM
Re: An Idea

Death of the Universe





The death of the universe could rival its birth in explosive drama if a puzzling form of energy continues to accelerate the expansion of space-time. Since the 1920s astronomers have thought the expansion was slowing down, but recent observations of distant stars reveal that the stretching of space is actually speeding up. If it picks up even more, the universe could be headed for a "big rip." An artist's conception of this scenario—one of many possible fates—shows how, some 20 billion years from now, unchecked expansion could tear matter apart, from galaxies all the way down to atoms.
Art courtesy Moonrunner Design
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09-21-2008, 11:01 AM
Re: An Idea



"New paradigms in science spread not because the tenants of the old paradigme are convinced by the new ideas, but because the tenants of the old paradigme die."

Max Planck
on Quantum physics vs. classical physics.






"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that is not crazy enough. "

Niels Bohr on Pauli's theory of elementary particles
from Arne A. Wyller's The Planetary Mind
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09-21-2008, 11:07 AM
Re: An Idea






"Life and mind have a common abstract pattern or set of basic organizational properties. The functional properties characteristic of mind are an enriched version of the functional properties that are fundamental to life in general. Mind is literally life-like."


Godfrey-Smith, P. (1996). Complexity and the Function of Mind in Nature. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.


"Mind is literally life-like. The Universe and Life are literally mind-like. "


Peter Winiwarter (200. Network Nature. www.bordalierinstitute.com
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09-22-2008, 03:42 AM
Re: An Idea

Prof. the original seed would give rise to a new flower, not the original one. Hence we can explain this scenario in terms of entropy. But if we want to get the original flower back, entropy will prevent us from doing that.

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Wouldn't the original flower come from the original seed ( the little point that all came from, perhaps imprinted with all that is to be ) and if not cyclic, through entropy, it becomes chaos and disorder and dies.

Just sharing my thoughts Dipayankar,

Pat
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09-22-2008, 07:12 AM
Re: An Idea

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But if we want to get the original flower back, entropy will prevent us from doing that.
Hi Dippy

There is a widespead misconception that entropy always increases - it doesn't. The there are two common features of our world which create order from disorder - life and gravity. However both still obey the forward arrow of time.

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09-22-2008, 08:24 AM
Re: An Idea

Hi Felix;

You're right entropy doesn't always increase but it nevers decreases. Here is something you might find of interest from Wikipedia dealing with entropy, life, the arrow of time and gravity.

[edit] Entropy and life

Main article: Entropy and life
For over a century and a half, beginning with Clausius' 1863 memoir "On the Concentration of Rays of Heat and Light, and on the Limits of its Action", much writing and research has been devoted to the relationship between thermodynamic entropy and the evolution of life. The argument that life feeds on negative entropy or negentropy as put forth in the 1944 book What is Life? by physicist Erwin Schrödinger served as a further stimulus to this research. Recent writings[citation needed] have utilized the concept of Gibbs free energy to elaborate on this issue. Tangentially, some creationists have argued that entropy rules out evolution.[48]
In the popular 1982 textbook Principles of Biochemistry by noted American biochemist Albert Lehninger, for example, it is argued that the order produced within cells as they grow and divide is more than compensated for by the disorder they create in their surroundings in the course of growth and division. In short, according to Lehninger, "living organisms preserve their internal order by taking from their surroundings free energy, in the form of nutrients or sunlight, and returning to their surroundings an equal amount of energy as heat and entropy."[49]

The arrow of time
Main article: Entropy (arrow of time)
Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences that "picks" a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As we go "forward" in time, the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that the entropy of an isolated system can only increase or remain the same; it cannot decrease. Hence, from one perspective, entropy measurement is thought of as a kind of clock.

[edit] Entropy and cosmology

Main article: Black hole thermodynamics
As a finite universe may be considered an isolated system, it may be subject to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, so that its total entropy is constantly increasing. It has been speculated that the universe is fated to a heat death in which all the energy ends up as a homogeneous distribution of thermal energy, so that no more work can be extracted from any source.
If the universe can be considered to have generally increasing entropy, then - as Roger Penrose has pointed out - gravity plays an important role in the increase because gravity causes dispersed matter to accumulate into stars, which collapse eventually into black holes. Jacob Bekenstein and Stephen Hawking have shown that black holes have the maximum possible entropy of any object of equal size. This makes them likely end points of all entropy-increasing processes, if they are totally effective matter and energy traps. Hawking has, however, recently changed his stance on this aspect.
The role of entropy in cosmology remains a controversial subject. Recent work has cast extensive doubt on the heat death hypothesis and the applicability of any simple thermodynamic model to the universe in general. Although entropy does increase in the model of an expanding universe, the maximum possible entropy rises much more rapidly - thus entropy density is decreasing with time. This results in an "entropy gap" pushing the system further away from equilibrium. Other complicating factors, such as the energy density of the vacuum and macroscopic quantum effects, are difficult to reconcile with thermodynamical models, making any predictions of large-scale thermodynamics extremely difficult.
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09-22-2008, 08:36 AM
Re: An Idea

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Prof.................. But if we want to get the original flower back, entropy will prevent us from doing that.
Quite right Dipayankar;

" You can never step twice into the same river " ( Heraclitus )
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09-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Re: An Idea

Quantum Mechanics picks an arrow of time too, we're just too stupid to recognize that blatantly.

To assume that just because we formulated our math wrong, and that the problems aren't our faults, AND that the equations pay no attention to times direction... it is ridiculous.

A black hole could literally be thought of as an egg unscrambling itself to produce another egg within it's body... or, in the best metaphor I've ever found.

A big bang is a seed, the seed unfolds into a flower.

The simplest flower can only close back up into another seed.

There are some flowers which can produce a seed within themselves, and these flowers can no longer close back up, they have to die to release their child.

As you take that further and further, you get flowers which produce multiple seeds, and then there is a sort of phase change.

The seedbearing flower becomes a fruit, and within the flesh of that fruit is a multitude of seeds.

So our universe is like a certain round red fruit, hanging from a tree, waiting to fall and land next to some guy named Newton.
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