An Idea

[austintorn@aol.com]

I worked with Fredrick on the illustration of the Pyramid Model—and it is just that, a model, not the actual physical Egyptian pyramid and its lore. It may be earlier in this thread somewhere.

The electric and the magnetic forces transition into each other, as the self-renewing electromagnetic wave that goes on at light speed toward ‘forever’. These points are like as East and West blend into each other on our globe.

The opposing forces of Weak and Strong are for the changeability vs. stability, as shown in some words on a picture a few posts ago. They are as different as North and South. Gravity arises from all forces together.

So, it is not really that we only have electromagnetism, but the strong and the weak and ‘gravity’ as well.

This shows the separation of the forces thought to be unified, plus there was the separation from the place that our universe came from—the origin, not necessarily the Creator as She is thought of mythically. Yes, she was a lady, Prof.

Some more actual pyramids here and the next page after:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/anecdo...html#post86908

[Profpat]

…you know I truly love you, it's just some topics may be better left undiscussed by you and I.

I know, Pat, but ToeQuest is a place just for that, plus it may inspire others reading the hread. While there is not much new under the sun, we are still very much able to make connections, as Einstein did, which is why also I though that you might like my post.

The other essence of the post is that many like to just say “case closed” about a truth and not dialog in this place that is meant for dialog. I realize it’s a person thing that could bring some alarm if it were somehow shattering or just seeming to be.

I did note also that God would make all out of himself if so He were.

I’ll switch to the Pyramid in the next post.

OK Austin you're right and I'm wrong, all discussions are open on my thread. When you bring up Galileo and other errors the Catholic Church made in it's 2,000 year history, let's try to get a proper perspective.

The church for the most part was not antiscientist. As I recall they didn't torture Galileo or kill him, they did try to silence his observations and conclusions. Most of their autracities were against other religious groups. This for the most part happened hundreds of years ago.

I have to admit I am very conflicted when discussing the church. Some of the finest people I met have been nuns and priests, but I believe all organized religions to be antichrist.

The Illuminati are just a small group of over zealous Catholics. Are you really concerned that Mel Gibson and Tom Monahan are going to take over the world?
Some of my friends, during the cold war would look under the bed to see if there were any commies there. Remember paranoia will destroy ya.

I mentioned before the atheist, in the form of Hitler, Stahlin and Mao killed many more people than any organized religion.

So much for organized religion.

As far as God, you and everyone else knows my faith in God, His love and in the 2 great commandments of Jesus. You can poke fun at believers all you want but it won't affect my faith or anyone else's faith.
Yes I believe we are either made up from God's creation or else perhaps we're part of His dream.
Again Austin, my belief is that God is Eternal always was, always will be. Nothing made God not even God. So you can't ask what made up God. Well you can but then you take away His eternal nature.

Best to you Austin,

Pat

[melanie]

As for making us and the universe out of a complete void of nothing, that is physically impossible.
God would have to have made us out of Himself.

Take the concept 'God' out of the picture and all you have left is THIS self evident immediate truth.
The void is everything and nothing simultaneous.
We can witness that for example with water, as it evaporates, it's there and not there simultaneously.
Same with fire.
And what about wind...can you see wind?
Life is a mirage, what we imagine to be there as solid existence, is there apparently.
Yet in reality it is also not there simultaneously.
For example, the baby that was once you, is now a child, the child that was once you, is now a young man, the young man is now an old man.
When we cling to illusions we will suffer from attachments and false hopes.

Religions, are community building and bring much comfort and meaning to the lives of many people.
However like all authoritative and organized hierarchies including the Illuminati they are in it for control and money.....It's the Holy Bu$ine$$
and most importantly it's all ( belief )
It's not all doom and gloom though, because we can all choose what to believe,
we can perceive reality according to our own personal individual beliefs.
What ever is true for you will work for you.
Because the universe mirrors back to you...YOU
There is a good New World Order, a bad NWO and a neutral NWO.
Sometimes the good NWO does bad things.
Sometimes the bad NWO does good things.
Sometimes the neutral NWO does good and bad things.
All three New World Order's are composed of infinity, and thus all three are good, evil and neutral.
Same with religion.

I say reject nothing, it's all part and parcel of the mysterious discovery we call life.


The truth however is already herenow within every atom of beingness.
And The truth cannot lie

It's will set you free.
That's all we are striving to be.
And yet, we have never not been free.

SEE

This, again, is just conjecture to say that His energy made our energy, plus now we have to wonder what made His energy.
Instead of the answer we think we have found, we’ve only created a much larger question.

We don't need to ask questions, the intellectual mind can't ever get past it's own logic.
This self evident IS-ness is beyond the mind of mortal man.
Nature does not use anything as a model.
It is only interested in perfecting the species.
It is trying to create perfect species and not perfect beings.

All these religions, godman, gurus and flunkies are offering us a new oasis.
You will find out that it is no different from other mirages.
When you are no longer caught up in the dichotomy of right and wrong or good and bad, you can never do anything wrong.
As long as you are caught up in this duality, the danger is that you will always do wrong.

BE ONE

[Profpat]

I believe there is only One force, the electro/magnetic force. All other "forces" are effects or manifestations of that One force.

In my An Idea I show how the 3 quarks make up positive and negative fields which account for the strong nuclear force, however, it is limited to ~ 100 protons due to stacking limitations, and then the atom will emit the alpha particle, what appears to be a seperate force called the weak force.

Gravity is an effect of the E/M Force. It is caused by either the bending or warping of the space/time continuum due to the mass which was created by the E/M force, or it may be a twisting of space due to the rotation of the spinning mass.

I believe this is the most logical explanation which unites all known forces into One.

Addtionally, physicists have already concluded that the E/M force, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear were but One force at the beginning of our universe, so I don't think we have to continue to try to reconcile those 3 forces.

Best to all,

Pat

[Fredrick]

To discuss the Egyptian pyramids without religion is to have a structure without purpose.

I'm not suggesting we fill that pryamid with religion but that for the main part is why the Egyptians built it.

To me, to get to an overall whole, you need to study the specific parts, without losing the gestalt of the overall.

You are saying all the right words, Pat, but I am surprised to read from your responses that you are unwilling to see that the pyramid is just what it is: a structure. Only the contents make the pyramid be an actual something.

And as I said before, we have to climb the pyramid each of us starting at a specific position; it cannot be done any other way. To reach the top, we do not let go of our experience, and there is no need for that. In top, we can view the whole, no matter our past experiences or beliefs.

The religious part, I have no problems there, Pat, your belief is sacred.

The structure, however, is not sacred; it's just a structure. We all know that in math 2 + 3 = 5, but I cannot say that 2 people and 3 conversations make a 5 of some kind. Only 2 people and 3 people make 5, and only 2 conversations and 3 conversations make 5.

No matter how important the person, or how important the conversation, the math is just the naked structure. Math does come with a few requirements, but math does not dictate value; it shows the structure of value.

When I say 2 + 1 = 3, then I do not expect you to reply that Jesus is the one. One has nothing to do with the other. The math is empty, naked, with nothing else to show for than the abstract structure behind it all.

But if you want to place your belief in a math structure, actually you can. It is still the same naked structure. One prayer and two prayers are together three prayers.

[Profpat]

"that the pyramid is just what it is: a structure. Only the contents makes the pyramid be an actual sometheing."

Isn't a structure an actual thing Fredrick? Once you have contents in the pryamid, what is your focus the structure or the contents? Also does the pryamid structure appear naturally in nature, at the atomic or subatomic level?

Best,

Pat

[Fredrick]

Isn't a structure an actual thing Fredrick? Once you have contents in the pyramid, what is your focus the structure or the contents? Also does the pyramid structure appear naturally in nature, at the atomic or subatomic level?

Great questions, Pat, and I hope I can explain this as you requested in a simple way.

A structure is not automatically an actual thing. If we are talking about a building structure, well of course it is a thing. But if we state that 2 apples and 3 apples are together 5 apples, then the math is a structure, but not an actual thing. Nothing was added to or subtracted from the 5 apples; we found a separation somewhere within the reality of this sum, but the sum is not anything that appears additionally next to the apples. Whether I make that sum be 4 + 1 or 5 + 0 does not matter; the 5 apples are 5 apples. I can also say nothing at all: we still have 5 apples.

Once we have contents in the pyramid, the pyramid has become meaningful. And this creates opportunities and problems. The focus may shift from 2 + 3 to just the apples. If the outcome is 5 apples, and I insist on taking away an apple, then the sum becomes incorrect. I may be hungry and I do not care about the outcome being 5. I want that apple. So, focus is vital in the pyramid display. If we focus on the contents, we will find ourselves in specific waters very soon. So the focus should remain at just the structure.

Learning math in school is just as complicated, because we have trouble splitting the actual from the abstract, and still have the abstract being correct and stating something factual about the actual matter.

There are no natural entities like a pyramid. But there are also no 2s or 3s walking down your street looking for the 1.

Still, the structure of the pyramid can be found in any delivery in which we try to encompass an overall perspective, whether we talk about the atomic or subatomic level or not.

Now, are you gonna eat that apple?

[Profpat]

Hi Fredrick;

I tell my students that accounting is reading, writing and arithmetic combined. I tell them, if they are like me, those subjects were the most difficult to learn and now they are incorporated into one discipline. That is one of the reasons they have difficulty. Some are math oriented some are more verbal. In accounting we rely on verbal( definition) and math skills as well as an overall understanding of a conceptual system.

Now I am able to add 3 apples and 2 oranges and wind up with 5 pieces of fruit, or 5 things, or 5 semispherical objects. It perhaps is more meaniful if I seperated the apples from the oranges to help define what I have.

OMG I think I'm confusing myself now in that I don't know where I'm going with this text.

I do like apples and I do like Pi( 3.14...)

Best,

Pat

[Fredrick]

I told you, the mind is mineable. If there is a way to see it, the human mind will do its best to see it. But we will also agree that some things don't add up, right?

The toughest part is yet to come, Pat, because now I have to ask you if your belief is really a belief or a fact.

If we have the structure of the pyramid, we can add contents to it, and it becomes meaningful. Yet if we add something that is not factual (such as a belief) then we are viewing a rather complicated pyramid. It is possible, but what we insert into the pyramid provides the meaning to the pyramid.

A belief is that construct that states we consider something as true. But considering and knowing are two different words. One implies holding something up as true, while the other stands on the ground as being true.

[Profpat]

I have to say belief or faith Fredrick. I'm not too sure if our reality is real. I accept that on faith that it is real, but my logic says it is an illusion.

I believe this is what adds to our confusion because when we get down to the very small or very beginning things fade away like old soldiers.