An Idea

[dipayankar]

Prof any idea how much the spacetime fabric can stretch under the weight of a star?

Hi Max and Fredrick;

Wouldn't, the path of light bend in accordance with the geometry of space-time?



Best,

Pat

[G_burnett]

UofC Berkley is doing it on a table top lol

[labelwench]

Hello Guys,

Love the illustrations! Stretching my mind, you are....

The pictures seem to illustrate visible light/energy, that being what visualization is all about, lol. So we see, relection and refraction and bending.

What about the invisible spectrums of light/energy? Would not at least some of them be absorbed, and once capacity to retain has been reached, released yet again?

I'm thinking of the planets as masses that "breath light/energy " but the process of respiration is far too simplistic, just to serve as a starting point.

Certainly not trying to disrupt the flow of present dialogue, and must dash to work. Will need to tap into a supernova to get the work done tonight, lol, half the crew done in by flu.

Utilizing fundamental substance through a simple biological conveyance, is rather like burning airplane fuel in your automobile. It'll go like a bat out of hell, but it's very hard on the engine.......

One theory for my wild speculations, lol.....

Pleasant night, fellows, catch you on the flip side.....

[Max™]

Take that "dimple" image, and rotate it all around the massive body so the flat portion makes a cube, and the dimple is no longer aimed "down", rather it is aimed inwards.

Straight lines through a dimple would be bent towards the massive body at some angle as they pass.

[Profpat]

Prof any idea how much the spacetime fabric can stretch under the weight of a star?

Hi Dipayankar;

I guess that would be a black hole question. At the bottom of the black hole, ( this of course brings up a new problem; is there a top and a bottom to a black hole, wouldn't space in all directions cave in on this hole? ). Getting back to our black hole does it become a white hole somewhere else in our universe? Is dark stuff the dumping ground for black holes? Do they provide access to another universe?

What do you and others think,

Best,

Pat

[Profpat]

[Profpat]

The color in these pictures represents the complex phase. Here is some Mathematica code

[Fredrick]

It isn't that the quanta are bent, to a beam of light it is following a straight line.

The very definition of a straight line is different in a region of curved spacetime, and it isn't an outward bend, it is inwards.

Perfect illustration here:

It appears that a source which actually lies perhaps a few degrees to your right, is shifted to lie several more degrees to the right, if you assumed the light from it was taking a straight path towards you.

The Eddington observations in 1919 were just the start of a long series of measurements of the effect.

Lately there are radio wave observations which confirm that the effect is within 0.999992 +/- 0.0000023 of the amount predicted by GR.

I am not doubting the observed information, Max. I am only doubting the conclusion made based on the observed information. As you can see in the drawing below, the exact same result can already be found with a distant photon having to go through a field of squazillion photons coming from the massive object between the distant star and ourselves.

The main argument about quanta is that in the world of light quanta, the other quanta are their equals. Whether we appoint a mass of zero to them or not is totally unimportant for the photons. They live in their own world and must deal with the circumstances that belong to their framework of the universe.



As soon as a distant photon coming into our direction bumps into a photon from the massive object in between, it is ever so lightly pushed to the side. Multiply by squazillion, and the photon's path is still moving in the same direction, but now more to the side (from our perspective). The closer the path near the massive object, the larger the sideway push. The more massive the object, the more sideway movement per distant photon, and also the larger a capturing basin it has (larger field of directional photons, capturing more distant photons and pushing the distant photons sideways in bigger ways).

Equality is a very important aspect in the universe because that is where interesting balances can occur. A photon interacting with another photon would be of a magnitude so small and occurring at such high speeds, we'd probably not be able to observe it, except at great distances in large numbers (see image below). And with the argument that it takes a diamond to cut a diamond, I can state quite confidently that at the photon level the other photons are truly there and do matter (even when they have a matter of zero); the single photon from a distant origin has to go through the directional field of photon bombardment of the massive object(s).


http://images.astronet.ru/pubd/2008/...gc2218_hst.jpg
http://image03.webshots.com/3/1/1/15...GoWUkFO_ph.jpg

I am interested to hear about light that was bent, and which we observed, such as from cluster Abell 2218 in the Hubble image above. We are taught to believe the bending of the light occurred because of gravity. Yet the information is more easily explained through the solar winds (and storms up close) coming from the particular massive object(s); we view the extra-light spots because it is there where the photons were collected/ended up due to this environment.

Again, and most importantly, we can only see those photons coming our way. None of the squazillion photons from the massive objects can be seen, except for those that are coming our way.

Sorry, the black hole story is not on my list of interest here, guys. In that obscure case, the light was distorted and if I am correct vanished from sight. If you read my posts, you know I consider black holes of close to zero gravitational reality; just the center of the spin, which is quite the environment, but not something I want to discuss here and now in light of light. I'd like to discuss just those examples that show light having followed a non-linear path somewhere before reaching earth or our instruments.

[Max™]

If light was pushed out like you suggest, we wouldn't see the sun.

Light is bosonic, it doesn't interfere like you're suggesting, it plays nicely.

The drawing you gave is nothing like the one I showed, if it worked that way, the Eclipse observations would not work, they would have showed a weird reversed effect from that expected by Einstein.

Remember, these photons would normally have whizzed off past us, but got deflected inwards towards the massive object, and into our path.

Take a stick and hold it straight up in front of you, touch a point on the wall.

Now hold the stick straight up, and tilt it a little to the left so it would be reading 11:00 if it were an hour hand on a clock.

Obviously you can't touch the same spot on the wall without holding your hand differently.

Now bend the stick over your knee so when you hold it at 11:00, it makes a ( shape.

Now touch the point on the wall.

Put a cup in between your hand and the wall, a straight stick will hit the cup.

If you put the stick at an angle where it won't hit the cup, off to the left, like the 11:00 position, it won't hit your wall point, the bent stick will.

[dipayankar]

I always liked the Multiverse part, since it saya there is an exact replica of me somewhere...

Hi Dipayankar;

I guess that would be a black hole question. At the bottom of the black hole, ( this of course brings up a new problem; is there a top and a bottom to a black hole, wouldn't space in all directions cave in on this hole? ). Getting back to our black hole does it become a white hole somewhere else in our universe? Is dark stuff the dumping ground for black holes? Do they provide access to another universe?

What do you and others think,

Best,

Pat