An Idea

[dipayankar]

The temperature of such a dense object should touch infinity or absolute as stated. I guess like 0K there has to be an upper limit to temperature where the electrons and atoms are self destroyed by the internal vibrations..

Hi All,

We know about absolute zero, what about absolute HOT. If the "big bang' is correct and everything we see ( luminous matter ) and everything we don't see (dark matter and energy), was all compacted into a little ball or point; then the pressure and temperature, must also have been absolute.

Maybe that should be our starting point of discussion?

Best to all,

Pat

[Profpat]

This is more of the us vs. them mentality.

If it weren't for relative conscious awareness, there wouldn't be a you to think of anything. Think about that. You can't seem to pull your head, out of the it-perspective.

Science is based in awareness.

Hi Drifter;

Just for you to ponder is the allegory or metaphor of Athena bursting forth from the forehead of Zeus.
Metis, Athena's mother, was eaten by Zeus to avoid any offspring, in an attempt to avoid prophecy. Metis represented knowledge and wisdom.

Also you have the fable of Zurvan ( Zoroastrianism ),
whose head burst open to create Ahura Mazda ( Good, Order, Knowledge ) and his twin Angra Mainyu ( Evil, Chaos, Ignorance ).

Both are metaphors, but is there an element of truth in them?

Best to you,

Pat

[Drifter]

The 'me' in myself is a result of the neural activity of the frontal brain. There is no materialism involved in this...

This actvity[ethereal] is a priori to materialism[ephemeral].
Why then do you consider matter as the basis of reality?

[Profpat]

The temperature of such a dense object should touch infinity or absolute as stated. I guess like 0K there has to be an upper limit to temperature where the electrons and atoms are self destroyed by the internal vibrations..

Thats what I was thinking Dipayankar. The protons and neutrons wouldn't be able to exist in such a condition, and therefore what would come out of it would be David's Fundamental Substance or what I would call strings, a one dimensional entity ( Or very high energy gamma radiation ).

This of course is still consistent with my Idea.

Best to you,

Pat

[Profpat]

This actvity[ethereal] is a priori to materialism[ephemeral].
Wht then do you consider matter as the basis of reality?

Hi Drifter;

Just my thoughts on your question; Because it's real.

Weren't you in agreement with Nobody that thoughts are not "Real Things"?

Best to you my wise and knowledgeable friend,

Pat

[Drifter]

Hi Drifter;

Just for you to ponder is the allegory or metaphor of Athena bursting forth from the forehead of Zeus.
Metis, Athena's mother, was eaten by Zeus to avoid any offspring, in an attempt to avoid prophecy. Metis represented knowledge and wisdom.

Also you have the fable of Zurvan ( Zoroastrianism ),
whose head burst open to create Ahura Mazda ( Good, Order, Knowledge ) and his twin Angra Mainyu ( Evil, Chaos, Ignorance ).

Both are metaphors, but is there an element of truth in them?

Best to you,

Pat

Zeus represents that state of awakened consciousness known as gnosis or the I-perspective.

Athena is Mother Nature [mother giving existence to her offsping or the relative personal nature], or the it-perspective.

Metis is the thinking mechanism or mind.

Zeus represents the Oneness of gnosis in all, the I-perspective.

The twins represent the world of opposites, dualistic thinking, seperateness.

Splitting the head with an ax is holding two perceptions in mind at same time.

[Drifter]

Hi Drifter;

Just for you to ponder is the allegory or metaphor of Athena bursting forth from the forehead of Zeus.
Metis, Athena's mother, was eaten by Zeus to avoid any offspring, in an attempt to avoid prophecy. Metis represented knowledge and wisdom.

Also you have the fable of Zurvan ( Zoroastrianism ),
whose head burst open to create Ahura Mazda ( Good, Order, Knowledge ) and his twin Angra Mainyu ( Evil, Chaos, Ignorance ).

Both are metaphors, but is there an element of truth in them?

Best to you,

Pat

Zeus represents that state of awakened consciousness known as gnosis or the I-perspective.

Athena is Mother Nature [mother giving existence to her offsping or the relative personal nature], or the it-perspective.

Metis is the thinking mechanism or mind.

Zeus represents the Oneness of gnosis in all, the I-perspective.

The twins represent the world of opposites, dualistic thinking, seperateness.

The supreme deity in Greek mythology— the usurping son of the Titans Kronos and Rhea. In the Theogony, written soon after 700 BC, Hesiod states that Zeus was ‘wise in counsel, father of gods and men, under whose thunder the broad earth quivers’. He defeated his father Kronos, and forced him to yield up not only his swallowed children, such as Poseidon and Hades, but also the imprisoned offspring of Ouranos, his grandfather. In gratitude the primeval Cyclopes presented Zeus with his powerful arms: thunder and lightning. The defeated Titans—the descendants of Ouranos and Gaia—Zeus confined in Tartarus, the realm beneath the underworld.

A composite figure, the sky god of the Greeks was active in the daily affairs of the world, but he was never looked upon as a creator deity.


Sixth-century BC Athenian vase representing the birth of Athena from the head of Zeus, which Hephaistos has just split with an axe

Splitting the head with an axe is holding two perceptions in mind at the same time.
The I-perspective and the it-perspective. Not either/or but both/and.

Again a representation of Gnosis. i.e.knowing, to know, or awakening, to awaken.

[Profpat]

How about this thread for discussing where matter came from (The TOE Resides Below the Level of Space):

http://www.toequest.com/forum/theory...vel-space.html

Hi Austin;

An intersesting link, but as you pointed out something makes up space, in that space is not VOID.

Given that what is wrong with the thought of David's Fundamental Substance, or Stings.

Strings to me represent a one dimensional substance of the smallest size ( Planck Lenghth ). Since this is not truly matter ( 3 dimensional matter ) why couldn't this be part of the ether which makes up space. It could also theoretically go faster than light and could help to explain spatial expansion and inflation.

Strings are also part of my Idea of the basic bulding blocks of matter. Starting with the smallest conceivable "THING"

Just my thoughts on it Austin,

Pat

[Drifter]

Hi Drifter;

Just my thoughts on your question; Because it's real.

Weren't you in agreement with Nobody that thoughts are not "Real Things"?

Best to you my wise and knowledgeable friend,

Pat

Real is relative.

Thoughts are only real in the relative assumption of circumstances we typically call reality.

They are intangible and nonsubstantial.

All matter has been shown by science to be made up primarily of the space in which it arises. Such is the womb of creation.

Everything is arising spontaneously, like a dream, from unconscious awareness. But awareness becomes conscious of the life-dream through us as individuals. And when awareness is conscious of something through an individual it has the oppotunity to consciously decide how to react. This is the experience we call 'choice'. Through you as an individual the life-dreamer [pure latent potential awareness]becomes conscious of the intention to act [relatively] before the action itself happens and can, therefore, choose to act or refrain from acting. Lower species of life are not possessed of this attribute.

The intuition that the experience of choice is of immense importance is right, because it is through your individual life-persona that the life-dreamer can consciously shape the life-dream, by choosing to make things better. The more conscious you become as an individual, the more choices the life-dreamer has through you.

When Father knows Mother- Son is born.

When Awareness knows Sensation- Consciousness is born.

Latent Potential stirs[reacts] into relative active conscious awareness.

Nature is the background[field] of both, one arise out of, from within, the other, as byproduct or offspring.

[Profpat]

Hi Drifter;

This to me is your key sentence:

All matter has been shown by science to be made up primarily of the space in which it arises

And the key word is PRIMARILY. This implies there is something more than 100% pure space.

Strings fit perfectly into your statement. 1 dimensional, planck lenghth, and yet the basis of all of our REALITY according to my Idea.

They make up the quarks, which makes up the proton/neutron, which is the building block of you and me, and our entire universe.

Believe it or not.

Best,

Pat