[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Drifter; Just for you to ponder is the allegory or metaphor of Athena bursting forth from the forehead of Zeus. Metis, Athena's mother, was eaten by Zeus to avoid any offspring, in an attempt to avoid prophecy. Metis represented knowledge and wisdom. Also you have the fable of Zurvan ( Zoroastrianism ), whose head burst open to create Ahura Mazda ( Good, Order, Knowledge ) and his twin Angra Mainyu ( Evil, Chaos, Ignorance ). Both are metaphors, but is there an element of truth in them? Best to you, Pat

Zeus represents that state of awakened consciousness known as gnosis or the I-perspective.

Athena is Mother Nature [mother giving existence to her offsping or the relative personal nature], or the it-perspective.

Metis is the thinking mechanism or mind.

Zeus represents the Oneness of gnosis in all, the I-perspective.

The twins represent the world of opposites, dualistic thinking, seperateness.

Splitting the head with an ax is holding two perceptions in mind at same time.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Drifter; Just for you to ponder is the allegory or metaphor of Athena bursting forth from the forehead of Zeus. Metis, Athena's mother, was eaten by Zeus to avoid any offspring, in an attempt to avoid prophecy. Metis represented knowledge and wisdom. Also you have the fable of Zurvan ( Zoroastrianism ), whose head burst open to create Ahura Mazda ( Good, Order, Knowledge ) and his twin Angra Mainyu ( Evil, Chaos, Ignorance ). Both are metaphors, but is there an element of truth in them? Best to you, Pat

Zeus represents that state of awakened consciousness known as gnosis or the I-perspective.

Athena is Mother Nature [mother giving existence to her offsping or the relative personal nature], or the it-perspective.

Metis is the thinking mechanism or mind.

Zeus represents the Oneness of gnosis in all, the I-perspective.

The twins represent the world of opposites, dualistic thinking, seperateness.

The supreme deity in Greek mythology— the usurping son of the Titans Kronos and Rhea. In the Theogony, written soon after 700 BC, Hesiod states that Zeus was ‘wise in counsel, father of gods and men, under whose thunder the broad earth quivers’. He defeated his father Kronos, and forced him to yield up not only his swallowed children, such as Poseidon and Hades, but also the imprisoned offspring of Ouranos, his grandfather. In gratitude the primeval Cyclopes presented Zeus with his powerful arms: thunder and lightning. The defeated Titans—the descendants of Ouranos and Gaia—Zeus confined in Tartarus, the realm beneath the underworld.

A composite figure, the sky god of the Greeks was active in the daily affairs of the world, but he was never looked upon as a creator deity.


Sixth-century BC Athenian vase representing the birth of Athena from the head of Zeus, which Hephaistos has just split with an axe

Splitting the head with an axe is holding two perceptions in mind at the same time.
The I-perspective and the it-perspective. Not either/or but both/and.

Again a representation of Gnosis. i.e.knowing, to know, or awakening, to awaken.

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com How about this thread for discussing where matter came from (The TOE Resides Below the Level of Space): http://www.toequest.com/forum/theory...vel-space.html

Hi Austin;

An intersesting link, but as you pointed out something makes up space, in that space is not VOID.

Given that what is wrong with the thought of David's Fundamental Substance, or Stings.

Strings to me represent a one dimensional substance of the smallest size ( Planck Lenghth ). Since this is not truly matter ( 3 dimensional matter ) why couldn't this be part of the ether which makes up space. It could also theoretically go faster than light and could help to explain spatial expansion and inflation.

Strings are also part of my Idea of the basic bulding blocks of matter. Starting with the smallest conceivable "THING"

Just my thoughts on it Austin,

Pat

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Drifter; Just my thoughts on your question; Because it's real. Weren't you in agreement with Nobody that thoughts are not "Real Things"? Best to you my wise and knowledgeable friend, Pat

Real is relative.

Thoughts are only real in the relative assumption of circumstances we typically call reality.

They are intangible and nonsubstantial.

All matter has been shown by science to be made up primarily of the space in which it arises. Such is the womb of creation.

Everything is arising spontaneously, like a dream, from unconscious awareness. But awareness becomes conscious of the life-dream through us as individuals. And when awareness is conscious of something through an individual it has the oppotunity to consciously decide how to react. This is the experience we call 'choice'. Through you as an individual the life-dreamer [pure latent potential awareness]becomes conscious of the intention to act [relatively] before the action itself happens and can, therefore, choose to act or refrain from acting. Lower species of life are not possessed of this attribute.

The intuition that the experience of choice is of immense importance is right, because it is through your individual life-persona that the life-dreamer can consciously shape the life-dream, by choosing to make things better. The more conscious you become as an individual, the more choices the life-dreamer has through you.

When Father knows Mother- Son is born.

When Awareness knows Sensation- Consciousness is born.

Latent Potential stirs[reacts] into relative active conscious awareness.

Nature is the background[field] of both, one arise out of, from within, the other, as byproduct or offspring.

[Profpat]

Hi Drifter;

This to me is your key sentence:

All matter has been shown by science to be made up primarily of the space in which it arises

And the key word is PRIMARILY. This implies there is something more than 100% pure space.

Strings fit perfectly into your statement. 1 dimensional, planck lenghth, and yet the basis of all of our REALITY according to my Idea.

They make up the quarks, which makes up the proton/neutron, which is the building block of you and me, and our entire universe.

Believe it or not.

Best,

Pat

[Profpat]

A summation of the various creation stories may be in order. The following information came from Wikipedia which may be accessed at:
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_belief )
This site is 45 pages long and so only the more accepted ones are summarized below.

egyptian: (one of the many)
Ptah was the eternal and everlasting God, and He spoke the universe into existence. He later became identified with Osiris who will judge the dead. Akhenaten later made Aten the monotheistic God.

eastern:

TAOISM:

With Tao, nothingness gave rise to existence, existence gave rise to Yin/Yang, and Yin/Yang gave rise to everything.

ZEN:

Everything and nothing are all interconnected, inseparable. a whole.

BUDDHISM:

“ Conjecture about the world is an unconjecturable, that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness and vexation to anyone who conjectured about it” AN IV.77

HINDU:

Existence is governed by the Trimurti. Brahma ( The Creator), Vishnu (The Sustainer ), Shiva (The Destroyer).
They believe in cyclic time not linear. Nature and all of God’s creation are manifestations of Him.

JAINISM:

The universe was not created nor will it ever cease to exist.

JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY:

By command, God created things such as light, space, land, plants, and animals, and culminates on the sixth day in creating man in God’s own image and likeness.

MORMONISM:

Physical reality (Space, matter/energy) is eternal. The Creator is an architect who constructed the universe out of the demiurge.


SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.

Peace, Joy and Love to all,

Pat

[dipayankar]

Hi ProfPAt
Would strings be able to withstand such a huge temperature or would it still breakdown to even more fundamental objects? Actually if we understand how the cap on the lower limit is put, we would understand if there is a higher limit for temperature..

Originally Posted by Profpat Thats what I was thinking Dipayankar. The protons and neutrons wouldn't be able to exist in such a condition, and therefore what would come out of it would be David's Fundamental Substance or what I would call strings, a one dimensional entity ( Or very high energy gamma radiation ). This of course is still consistent with my Idea. Best to you, Pat

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Hi ProfPAt Would strings be able to withstand such a huge temperature or would it still breakdown to even more fundamental objects? Actually if we understand how the cap on the lower limit is put, we would understand if there is a higher limit for temperature..

You pose interesting questions Dipayankar.
Here are my thoughts. Absolute zero means no movement and therefore no heat. Absolute hot, therefore would probably mean absolute movement, perhaps your question is a key to explain how there was spatial inflation and how space could move faster than light.

Here is a post describing the first second after the "big bang". The entire post is located at:
( http://www.geocities.com/lungdoctor_...ory.htm?200718 )


The First Second<SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">. One microsecond after the creation of the universe the temperature was about 10 trillion degrees K – about a million times hotter than the center of the Sun. The glow of radiation would have been intense and uniform in all directions, and there would have been a bright fog that limited vision to a small fraction of a centimeter. The high-energy gamma rays that made up most of the radiation at that time were so energetic that they were capable of pair production. Pair production is the production of matter from energy whereby the collision of two photons yields a particle and its antimatter counterpart. Therefore, one set of products of pair production is an electron and a positron (which is as massive as an electron but has a positive charge). Other possible pairs would be a neutrino and an antineutrino, and many others. Pair production is one of the most spectacular consequences of Einstein’s famous equation; E=mc2. For two photons to produce a pair of particles, these photons must have energy at least equal to mc2, where m is the combined mass of the particle and antiparticle, and c is the speed of light. A microsecond after the universe began, the gamma ray photons present had sufficient energy to produce protons, neutrons, electrons and their antiparticles.

PS SORRY THE URL DIDN"T WORK

[Profpat]

Hi Everyone;

On page 45 post #446 Is a summation of various creation stories.

On page 39 post #338 Is Plato's and Aristotle's thoughts on first cause.

Here are the thoughts of Parmenides and Heraclitus on the subject.

PARMENIDES:
Thought the world is "One Being". Unchanging, ungenerated, indestructible whole. For him movement and change are simply appearances of a static, eternal reality.

HERACLITUS:
Thought everything was always changing or in flux. "This entails the coincidence of opposites" meaning that things are both the same and opposite each other at the same time.
Heraclitus is the first to the word kosmos for world order, which he believed ever was and ever will be, not created by god or man.

That about sums up the best ancient thoughts on or universe.

The different thoughts seem very similar to todays diverse opinions on our universe.

Best to all,

Pat

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Everyone; On page 45 post #446 On page 39 post #338

Pat ... page numbers are only relevant to the displayed number you have set in your profile

cool bananas ... greg